I need to prove or disprove a slipped liner on a 4.0L

[nathansharkey]

I have a problem with overheating and a Mifire code in Cylinder #4.

Some background - 2002 Discovery Owned since new. Always religous oil changes ect...

60,000 Miles on original engine.

Replaced Rad @ 20,000 miles under warranty.

Had misfire in Cylinder #4 codes since new. Never been a problem with power or fuel mileage before.

New Spark Plugs and Wires done 3,000 miles ago.

Loosing coolant and overheating after 15minutes of city driving. Happening daily. No leaks noticeable in engine bay or under vehicle.

Engine leak down test performed. All cylinders held over 100 pounds overnight without a drop in pressures.

When #4 Spark Plug removed, old plug was very difficult to get out and showed the most wear.

Pulled all spark plugs and looked in cylinder with bore hole scope. No irregularities found.

No oil in coolant or coolant in oil.

Engine over heats every time vehicle gets up to temp within 15min.

During bore hole scope inspection, no coolant found in cylinder.

Engine leak down test showed no leaks.

I am wodering if the misfire code and the overheating happening at the same time is a coincidence or if they are related. I have a shop doing the work for me and they are not sure what to do. They will pull heads off and try to look for problems on the top end, but I know that this will be expensive and I have read that the heads never seat the same again after they are removed. What is the cheapest way (less time consuming) of proving or disproving slipped/cracked liner or cracked block. I don't want to piss a thousand dollars or more away paying a shop to inspect for a problem that could be easier to diagnose a different way.

Thanks for your help,

Nathan:banghead:

 

[I HATE PONIES]

Check the thermostat first.

 

[nathansharkey]

Forgot to mention. Thermostat replaced as the first culprit when the shop that is working on it looked at it. They thought that they had it fixed with the new thermostat. They took it for test drive and it overheated again. I asked them if they were sure that there wasn't any air in the system and they told me most definitively no. They are sure no air in system and no chance of it blah blah blah.

 

[I HATE PONIES]

Forgot to mention. Thermostat replaced as the first culprit when the shop that is working on it looked at it. They thought that they had it fixed with the new thermostat. They took it for test drive and it overheated again. I asked them if they were sure that there wasn't any air in the system and they told me most definitively no. They are sure no air in system and no chance of it blah blah blah.

I would say that the t-stat is/was the problem. If the techs or you drove it to the point of overheating then headgasakets and or block replacement is just a matter of time.IMHO.

 

[azarmadillo]

I had a slipped sleeve in my Range Rover I rolled. In the final two months it would burn about 32oz of coolant out of it every time I drove it. But it wouldn't overheat. However, I would add more coolant or water everytime the low coolant light came on. Never any evidence of coolant in the oil or other possible leaks. Thinking back on when the sleeve must have slipped or started to slip was almost exactly a year ago from the roll over. I was headed up into the mountains, fully loaded, constantly downshifting and with sort of a small boom and a big puff of white smoke out the tail pipe followed by crappy performance for the next day or so. Barely making it to 45mph in high range for the first few hours after it happened.

Also during the last two months, it would run like crap from a cold start, stumbling and popping for the first few miles, once as much as an hour before it smoothed out and ran normal.

 

[gabriel]

I didn't have any noticable coolant loss and any over heating. Just a misfire at cold start up for the first 15 to 30 seconds. Compression was fine across all cylinders. Exhaust gas test was fine. Borescope finally did show some coolant in the cylinder. Pulling the head was the only way to confirm a slipped liner on mine. The liner slipped just enough to allow a small amount of coolant into the cylinder when it sat overnight. Don't know if its easier to drop the pan to look to see if the liner has slipped, maybe someone else knows.

 

[disco2hunter]

I've had misfire codes from weak coils, you could try replacing the coil pack. I also had a water pump with a bad impeller that over heated the way you describe. It would over heat if you were standing still but if you were driving it would just run hot. When I pulled the pump out the impeller was spinning on the shaft. These parts would be a hell of alot less to replace before pulling the motor. Good luck!

 

[MontrealRR90]

Well beleive it or not i have had two slipped liners one on RR and one on a D1. The RR started burning oil has i quart every 30 miles and a loss of power but no noticeble coolant loss. The D1 was running great and one morning it just would not start with a starnge noise and when we pulled the heads off there you can see it another dropped liner. Buy the way for those who don't know yet has you can see on Robinsons web site the dropped liner our caused from overheating the engine because its an Aluminium engine http://www.robisonservice.com/articles/RonR_jan2006.asp

So when your replacing an engine its a 50-50 chance your taking because you dont really know if that engine your buying has overheated ! But sometimes $ is the decision maker thats for sure.

 

[ptschram]

I have a problem with overheating and a Mifire code in Cylinder #4.


Had misfire in Cylinder #4 codes since new. Never been a problem with power or fuel mileage before.

Why in the fawk didn't you have the dealer fix this while it was under warranty???

Loosing coolant and overheating after 15minutes of city driving. Happening daily. No leaks noticeable in engine bay or under vehicle.

Engine leak down test performed. All cylinders held over 100 pounds overnight without a drop in pressures.

When #4 Spark Plug removed, old plug was very difficult to get out and showed the most wear.

Losing coolant how? Level going down but no evidence of where it's going?

How do you know it's overheating? Is it puking coolant, or is it just the temp gauge telling you this? If temp gauge, have you measured the temps to determine if it is really getting over hot?

Pulled all spark plugs and looked in cylinder with bore hole scope. No irregularities found.

It's highly uinlikely you'd see it by looking at the bore. If there is a problem with the liners, it would probably not be visible from inside but rather would require having the heads remvoed to inspect the interface between the block and the liners.

Engine over heats every time vehicle gets up to temp within 15min.

I am wodering if the misfire code and the overheating happening at the same time is a coincidence or if they are related.

Could well be related, but again, we (or at least I) need to know how you're determining it is overheating. This is especially important with a DII due to the non-direct reading nature of the temp gauge (hint, read the rave).

I have read that the heads never seat the same again after they are removed. What is the cheapest way (less time consuming) of proving or disproving slipped/cracked liner or cracked block. I don't want to piss a thousand dollars or more away paying a shop to inspect for a problem that could be easier to diagnose a different way.

Thanks for your help,

Nathan:banghead:

Never seat the same? Where the fawk did you hear this? DON'T believe everything you read on the internet! Do you really think that the wee green men (the Welsh midgets) who live in Solihull and assemble these engines have a magic process to put cylinder heads on that is better than the way we do them in America?

First step, confirm the engine is really getting overhot.

Second step, start looking for presence of combustion gases in the coolant and coolant in the exhaust gases.

Third, start looking for coolant leaking elsewhere. It is very possible that you are not pressurizing your cooling system and if it isn't under pressure, the boiling point is not elevated and you'll have boilover at a much lower temp than otherwise.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

a leak down test that holds 100psi in all cylinders overnight?

wow thats a tight motor...LOL

I hope that you are getting frosting on the bullshit your mechanic is feeding you.

 

[ptschram]

a leak down test that holds 100psi in all cylinders overnight?

wow thats a tight motor...LOL

I hope that you are getting frosting on the bullshit your mechanic is feeding you.

LOL, I wonder just what he's spraying into the cylinders to seal the ring gaps to hold that much pressure that long!

Good catch Thom.

 

[nathansharkey]

Thanks for the replies.

The mechanic told me that the engine was holding the pressure w/o leaking. I didn't witness it.

As far as know that the engine is overheating - The temp gauge goes up to red and the red light comes on. Then the coolant shoots out of the overflow.

When I asked Land Rover about the constant misfire codes (when I say constant, I mean every time that the Vehicle was in to get service) they told me not to worry and that it would most likely go away when the spark plugs get changed or could be some possible bad gas or it could just be a glich yahdy yahdy yahdy. Looking back now, I wish I would have pursued it. Seeing as it was never causing grief for me, I figured it may be just a glich of some sort.

 

[Ed Cheung]

Since it is not mentioned, have you check the viscous fan, the flow of the water pump or the radiator?

After I had fixed the t-stat, viscous fan water pump and clean up the inside of the radiator as my was clogged big time, my DI's overheating is gone.
More info, my coolant mix is 70% water and 30% coolant. Since I don't live in the cold weather so I am not too worry about the coolant freezes, so I use less % on coolant, and I notices the coolant is more efficiency when the mixture with less that 50% with coolant.

Why you need to replace the radiator at 20K ?
Do your electric fans turns on when your truck overheat? ( It should be on as coolant temp. reach 210-220F.


Do you smell coolant in the heater? You might have busted the heater core as there is no sign of coolant leaking in the engine bay and the remaining parts where the coolant flow to is the heater.

 

[singingcamel]

My 2 cents,
thermostat good
radiator good
no leaks from the engine compartment
serp belt on correct
water pump without a leak
pressurizing the engine with coolant
pull the head look at the head gasket if its good
i would bet you have either a cracked or slipped liner
betcha it #4

 

[nathansharkey]

I replaced the rad @ 20K because it was leaking. I have not flow tested water pump yet or performed flow test on rad. I will be doing this next. I wish I would have been more agressive with my Dealership when they first stated telling me that they were clearing misfire codes. I should have pushed a little harder to make them give me answers.

 

[Ed Cheung]

Your rad leaks @ 20K, hope your engine is not overheated since @20K.

Make you you do what PT said as well, do the test for checking combustion gases in the coolant and coolant in the exhaust gases.

And be sure your viscous is working correctly.