If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

[ptschram]

If I ever find the individual responsible for this design, I will personally castrate or otherwise disfigure him/her.

Who could possibly have thought this was a good idea?

It had to be the same guy who was responsible for the Classic heater.

I love these stupid trucks, but to spend nearly five hours just to get the damned screw out is ridiculous. Yes, I took the shortcuts, but this truck just wouldn't cooperate. To make matters worse, a worse butcher than I was forced to be was there ahead of me and did not replace the screw with a socket head cap screw.

Hopefully, it will go back together more easily than it came apart. SWMBO has been warned that if I'm drinking hard liquor when she gets home, not a word is to be spoken!

Wish me luck.

PT

 

[SGaynor]

I feel your pain...

On a Suburban I used to have, the ABS ECU went (a fairly common occurance). Well, they couldn't put the ECU/pump somewhere convienent - it was on top of the frame rail, under the driver's door. There was about 2" of clearence between the top of the ECU (it sat on top of the pump) and the body. The ECU was held on with 4 screws - of course you could only see two of them (and that was when you were on your back with hands straight down by your legs - very uncomfortable).

To add to that misery, the screws (philips head) were steel, the pump body aluminum. Yeah, they were frozen. When I went to remove the screws (using a ratch/philips bit), ended up stripping out the head of three of the screws. Had to borrow a friend's Dremel (I ended up buying him a 90 degree attachment to get to the "unseen" screws) to grind the heads off. Just getting the ECU off took 8 hours! Did I mention it was in an unheated garage and it was 20F outside (Dec in MI)? My neck hurt for days from lifting it to see while on my back.

Fast forward three years. The rebuilt ECU goes again. This time the replacement screws were so rusted that two of them snapped of at the top of the pump. Only took 2 hours to get the ECU out, but now I had to remove the pump and drill out the screws. That time I replaced them with SS hex head screws and put goobs of antiseeze on them. Sold the truck a year later.

I'm sure the ABS assembly was easy to work on in the factory without the body on the truck.

After that I came to realization that the manufacturers only care about how easy it is to put the car together, and could give a sh*t about how easy/difficult it is to fix something when it breaks.

:banghead::banghead:

 

[tiger]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

A great craftsman, a fellow who has built five aircraft from scratch, won all sorts of awards and such, makes things for a living, once taught me a great lesson:

"Making the tools for a job is actually 90% of the job. Actually DOING the job is the easy part."

Both of these situations remind me of that. Sometimes the best thing to do is step back and realize that if you make up the right tool, the rest of the job will be no problem. Of course, this is much easier said than done, and I very often find myself with skinned knuckles still hacking away at something, when I should have stepped back and really thought it through, and gotten the right tools together, or MADE the right tools, before I began. In the end, it's usually the shorter way around!
Hey, free useless platitudes for all! No charge!

 

[CORover]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

I am with you on this one, and we are not alone. We could get a mob together real quick... I am just finishing this job too and while I was able to get the screw in question out, I had to remove the passenger air bag to get the upper heater ducts back together. What a fine fit they are too! They barely stay together, I finally decided to use a sheet metal screw for that flex duct connection, it just would not stay on no matter what I did.

I am sure its was a breeze to assemble at the factory with all of the parts out of the way, and then when it needs to be worked on again, they are creating a source of revenue for the company in repair work!

Someone somewhere is having a good laugh over all of this, but it's not me.

 

[rover-renovations]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

I'm not looking forward to doing mine, not leaking yet....knock on all the wood in the shop....

I replaced the core in SWMBO's old Volvo in 30 minutes, no s**t. I wish the RR would be that easy.

 

[ptschram]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

It's gotten worse. It looks as though in addition to leaking O-rings, it might also be the heater core proper.

To make matters even better, this part of the job was to be paid by the seller of the vehicle who beat me down on price by demanding that I use the butcher the inner panel method. When I got into, somebody had beaten me to it and apparently used a sawz-all to move the ducts out of the way.

At the very least, I refuse to warranty any part of this job.

The only good thing? I'm so glad I pressure tested the core with air before reassembly, only to find it leaking still.

 

[Roverlady]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

I don't know anything about the P38 o-rings, but I think there should be a list of 'stupid designs' or just 'bad decisions' on Rovers....and you can add the rear lift gate glass frame on the RRC to it for me!!

 

[ptschram]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

I've now got the airbag out, no help!

My pressure test fittings are proving to be worth far more than what little the fittings cost. I am SO glad I didn't reassemble this POS, just to find it still leaking.

It's jobs like these that make me question going into this business.

PT

 

[CORover]

I am a little worried about my core as well. A little person in the back of my head is wondering why I am still smelling antifreeze so much. Could just be all of it that spilled on the carpet and padding before and after the job, or I fear it may be the core too.

I am not sure how to tell if the core is bad though. I guess I will have to keep looking for more AF leaking around. My rings are sealed now, I even drove for a week without it all back together just to make sure no more was leaking!

 

[ptschram]

I am not sure how to tell if the core is bad though. I guess I will have to keep looking for more AF leaking around. My rings are sealed now, I even drove for a week without it all back together just to make sure no more was leaking!

I am pressurizing the heater core to 10 psi (the cap is 15 psi so I'm confident I'm well below the max) and looking for a quick pressure drop. Last night, it was taking quite awhile, today, it falls immediately.

I don't have the luxury of leaving it torn apart.

 

[ptschram]

Whew! Finally got the damned thing to hold pressure!

Time to button it back up and move onto the next one.

 

[expectthebest]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

If I ever find the individual responsible for this design, I will personally castrate or otherwise disfigure him/her.

Who could possibly have thought this was a good idea?

It had to be the same guy who was responsible for the Classic heater.

I love these stupid trucks, but to spend nearly five hours just to get the damned screw out is ridiculous. Yes, I took the shortcuts, but this truck just wouldn't cooperate. To make matters worse, a worse butcher than I was forced to be was there ahead of me and did not replace the screw with a socket head cap screw.

Hopefully, it will go back together more easily than it came apart. SWMBO has been warned that if I'm drinking hard liquor when she gets home, not a word is to be spoken!

Wish me luck.

PT

Poor design? I think it's a British thing.

 

[skippy3k]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

It's easy to replace the o-ring when you pull the entire dash. I replaced my O-rings only to end up pulling the dash out 6 months later to replace the ac evaporator. There I was, with the entire dash assembly on my bench, staring right at the brand new o-rings I installed months before.

Nice.

 

[ptschram]

It's easy to replace the o-ring when you pull the entire dash.

Nice.

Hope springs eternal that the job will go smoothly when taking the shortcuts. Shopboy and I did one where we got the O-rings done in less than three hours and proceeded to take four hours to get the glove box to close and open consistently.

Next one, the dash is coming out!

 

[monkeyboy]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

a) Good to see that you're well enough to be working at all.

b) just double your prices on this job and it'll be way less annoying.

HoHoHo.

KAA

 

[skippy3k]

Re: If you were the engineer responsible for P38 htr core O-rings, would you admit it?

I know it sounds crazy, but there is a lot of maintenance one can do while the dash is out. Blend motors, ac evap check, clean ac drain tubes, clean the coffee and soda out from the shifter, o-rings, etc. It took me one day to pull it out, and one day to put it back in. And that was moving slow.

It's really not that hard once you do it. I am actually thinking of doing it again because my vent airflow is pitiful. Also, I want to pull some extra wiring through the firewall.