I owned my 2004 D2 for 12.42 years and averaged $415.49 per month in expenses, but this includes repairs, general maintenance, plus all the extra crap like steel bumpers, winch, racks, etc. I never bothered isolating out repairs vs. maintenance vs. extra crap. The average does not include purchase price though.
INEOS Grenadier
- Thread starter ERover82
- Start date
Thanks for the detailed and honest updates on the Grenadier. I think they look awesome outside and, for the most part, are neat inside as well. I'd be hard pressed to decided between a more road friendly Defender 6cyl and the cool guy Grenadier. For the same reason I wouldn't trade my V8 LR4 for a Defender I couldn't give it up for a Grenadier either. V8 LR4s are still pretty cheap. I suspect they will take a while to go crazy like OG Defenders, RRCs and D2s have over the last 5-10 years. For the ~$50K price difference, I'll take the more powerful, comfortable, and spacious option...for now. V6 LR4? Eh, I might go the other way.
I'm know I'm jinxing myself, but my LR4 has never made me spend money on it. I put new pads, rotors, wheel bearings, filters, and spark plugs on it when I bought it as preventative maintenance. Parts were fairly expensive but that's LR life. At least I can get quality ones for it, unlike classic LR parts.
I'll consider myself lucky for that and not having to pay a shop to work on my LRs. Many years ago I called an English car "shop" in Atlanta to have the u joint replaced in the rear driveshaft on my D2. They wanted over $700...I asked why when it's an hour job max and the part is $50. They said they "rebuild" the driveshaft. I asked what that meant on a shaft with one u-joint on it. I had already replaced the flex disc and bushing. They couldn't tell me so I just waited until I could get my garage built out. Haven't tried a shop since but the guys at Bear Valley seem cool.
Back to the Grenadier. As I considered one I realized that a G55 AMG costs less money. That's triple lockers and 500hp worth of V8 for $20-40K less. Yeah, it's dated and there's no warranty. Growing up in Euro shops I can say they're dead nuts reliable bank vaults. Suspension parts are eye-wateringly expensive but the G handles very well for a sold axle truck. It's like a P38 but rides rougher. I'd be interested in a handling and cargo comparison with the Grenadier though. I imagine the Grenadier wins out on cargo room, range, and (maybe serviceability). Three very important factors for an explorer.
I'm know I'm jinxing myself, but my LR4 has never made me spend money on it. I put new pads, rotors, wheel bearings, filters, and spark plugs on it when I bought it as preventative maintenance. Parts were fairly expensive but that's LR life. At least I can get quality ones for it, unlike classic LR parts.
I'll consider myself lucky for that and not having to pay a shop to work on my LRs. Many years ago I called an English car "shop" in Atlanta to have the u joint replaced in the rear driveshaft on my D2. They wanted over $700...I asked why when it's an hour job max and the part is $50. They said they "rebuild" the driveshaft. I asked what that meant on a shaft with one u-joint on it. I had already replaced the flex disc and bushing. They couldn't tell me so I just waited until I could get my garage built out. Haven't tried a shop since but the guys at Bear Valley seem cool.
Back to the Grenadier. As I considered one I realized that a G55 AMG costs less money. That's triple lockers and 500hp worth of V8 for $20-40K less. Yeah, it's dated and there's no warranty. Growing up in Euro shops I can say they're dead nuts reliable bank vaults. Suspension parts are eye-wateringly expensive but the G handles very well for a sold axle truck. It's like a P38 but rides rougher. I'd be interested in a handling and cargo comparison with the Grenadier though. I imagine the Grenadier wins out on cargo room, range, and (maybe serviceability). Three very important factors for an explorer.
Bill, hat's off to you for keeping track on vehicle repairs and maintenance. I have never done that diligence.
LR4 ate about $8k this year in repairs - including the timing chain tensioners. In the past, I'd probably chalk about $2k a year, give or take. It is definitely more than my other trucks ever took, and far more than the D1 in its comparable ages and mileage. It has also spent more miles on the flatbed than the rest of my fleet, combined.
Blueboy -
The 95 Classics - one I bought in 2001, it looks gorgeous but original 4.2 has always ran like shit. It is much happier with a 4.0/3.9 hybrid. The other I bought around 2007, and it's been the most trouble-free cars ever. Runs beautifully, and I just plopped $4k on a decent paint job. The other two (only one I own now) were high mileage "rescues" - from the descendants of wealthy original owners who let them down. Both in a bad shape cosmetically, and came in different states of delayed/deferred breakdowns. The Grenadier purchase led to selling one of them (which just became a beautiful daily driver) to a friend.
This is not to say anything good or bad about a Grenadier - with about 800 miles on the clock since new, I can't say much. Time will tell. If it proves to be as trouble-free as my old D1, it's already a win.
By the way, if anyone needs convincing of not buying a Grenadier, there's a Discoweb-like forum - https://www.theineosforum.com/ . Plenty of early production bugs in Euro and UK vehicles, a lot less in U.S. (2024 MY) trucks.
LR4 ate about $8k this year in repairs - including the timing chain tensioners. In the past, I'd probably chalk about $2k a year, give or take. It is definitely more than my other trucks ever took, and far more than the D1 in its comparable ages and mileage. It has also spent more miles on the flatbed than the rest of my fleet, combined.
Blueboy -
The 95 Classics - one I bought in 2001, it looks gorgeous but original 4.2 has always ran like shit. It is much happier with a 4.0/3.9 hybrid. The other I bought around 2007, and it's been the most trouble-free cars ever. Runs beautifully, and I just plopped $4k on a decent paint job. The other two (only one I own now) were high mileage "rescues" - from the descendants of wealthy original owners who let them down. Both in a bad shape cosmetically, and came in different states of delayed/deferred breakdowns. The Grenadier purchase led to selling one of them (which just became a beautiful daily driver) to a friend.
Nothing, not a single thing, related to a G-wagen "cost less money." You just rarely hear of the problems since the original owners tend to dealer-service them and ditch them at the first sign of a looming large expense. The second owners tend to be of a drug-dealing whiskey tango variety, leading to more profound problems. Unless you owned one for 200k miles since new, or own a shop servicing these on a regular basis, you don't know the true cost of ownership.
This is not to say anything good or bad about a Grenadier - with about 800 miles on the clock since new, I can't say much. Time will tell. If it proves to be as trouble-free as my old D1, it's already a win.
By the way, if anyone needs convincing of not buying a Grenadier, there's a Discoweb-like forum - https://www.theineosforum.com/ . Plenty of early production bugs in Euro and UK vehicles, a lot less in U.S. (2024 MY) trucks.
Yeah, my '95 RRC gets a preventive regime worthy of an aircraft. It's not the cost, or the work, it's the mental gymnastics of making sure I've checked every box prior to a long trip that wears me down. I do love it and the 4.2 is the best LR engine I've driven. But it's also way too nice to bang-up off-road, so I've decided, why even keep it.
As a glimpse into the workings of a neurodivergent overcontrolled mind, here's a screenshot of a spreadsheet I keep to track every project I do and dollar I spend on all of my Land Rovers. Feel free to adapt this to your own purposes. The main takeaway I get from reflecting on these data is that I'm doing my part to keep Will Tillery in business. Entries on the sheet have definitely slowed over the last couple of years as my Disco has needed nothing more than fluid changes. Also, that owning a D1 and even an LR3 is a far better value proposition than buying a new vehicle, although this choice is not without tradeoffs.
Mods shouldn't be counted against a vehicle's ownership cost.
Or... should they?
It occurred to me this morning, looking at my Classic and Grenadier, that one of them is adapted for off-pavement work and another - built for it. I already have a small pile of hardware in the garage to go on the Grenadier, but - I've spent some coin replacing the Classic's axles and transfer case to make it more off-road ready, while Grenadier came with all of it. The "mods + repairs" on that Classic cost me about $15k in four years, maintenance not included.
Like I said, "Growing up in Euro shops I can say they're dead nuts reliable bank vaults" and "Suspension parts are eye-wateringly expensive". I said the G is cheaper to buy. I can throw a rock and hit ten G55s for less than $60K. Last time I built a Grenadier it was six figures delivered.
I was not implying it was cheaper to own. One of our shop foremen had a Europa with over 280K on it by the time I left the family businesses for grad school around 2014. He didn't buy it new, but it sure wasn't the only G we'd see. Of course the supercharger on the 55 adds more complexity. Still, other than axle/suspension-specific jobs, maintaining a pre-7speed G is no more expensive that a W163 ML500 or W211 E55. Like a V6 LR4, I wouldn't consider a 7-speed G.
Of course, we have no idea how much the Grenadier will cost. Its drivetrain is milquetoast BMW. That's not necessarily a recipe for low costs. The suspension and axles are the unknowns, so it could end up like the older Gs.
Not looking to derail the Grenadier conversation. Just saying once I remembered there was a better option for a modern SUV with solid axles and boxy design at a lower price I didn't consider the Grenadier further.
Oh I'm sure that is a big factor. The P38 may have a wider track too. I had a P38 with a Terrafirma coil kit on it, and it rode harsher than a stock G500 or G55.
I never thought the G rode as well as RRs, just saying it does handle as well as the P38. In my opinion, the P38 is one of the best handling solid axle trucks I have owned so it's my benchmark.
Two former coworkers of mine bought new G550s when they facelifted and went IFS (2019 I think?). They rode way better but were still not up to L405 ride quality. By then we're talking body on frame (MB) vs. unibody (Land Rover) though.
Looks a bit like the Suzuki Jimny.
It's such a crock of shit we can't get that here in the states. Except this color, it should be unavailable everywhere. And that LC Mini. Who the fuck puts a color like that on a vehicle and thinks "oh yeah, people will snatch these up".Looks a bit like the Suzuki Jimny.
Interesting. I daily drive my ‘96 D1 and other than the typical maintenance items i.e. oil/filter changes, tires, etc. has been pretty inexpensive. My daily drive though is usually 20 miles round trip to walk the Labs at the local ski area or State Park. Did have the head gaskets done and completely redid the cooling system a few years back yet currently have 112k miles and still going ok.
However as Blue mentioned earlier I’m always prepared for a $1k hit at any given time!
The difference was probably falling in love with a truck on a whim and getting blasted with deferred maintenance on my D1 vs looking at trucks for months until I found the right one with the D4.Interesting. I daily drive my ‘96 D1 and other than the typical maintenance items i.e. oil/filter changes, tires, etc. has been pretty inexpensive. My daily drive though is usually 20 miles round trip to walk the Labs at the local ski area or State Park. Did have the head gaskets done and completely redid the cooling system a few years back yet currently have 112k miles and still going ok.
However as Blue mentioned earlier I’m always prepared for a $1k hit at any given time!
Anyone checked out the Rivian RS1? I have an appointment to test drive one after the new year and after I get back from Mexico. Steep entry price but man it looks nice. More flat floor length with 2nd and 3rd row folded than the LR4. 835 HP and 908 torques. 350 or so miles on a full charge. Beats the hell out of my 250 mile per tank LR4. Vegan leather interior....LO fuckin' L. I might swan dive into the full electric hippie crowd.
Yeah those things are everywhere in Japan.
They look like a great all-wheel drive runabout utility thing. That being said, they also look like certain death if you get an accident anywhere over 40 miles an hour
Theres one in my parking deck at the office. They’re sharp and well sized compared to many of the bloated SUVs today. That said, haven’t ridden in one. No coincidence the same guy also has a LWB Classic and NAS 90…