Intermittent start -- 94 RRC

[deadbeat son]

My 94 SWB with the stock 3.9L almost stranded my fiancee a couple of weeks ago. She parked it at a store and when she came back outside, it wouldn't start. It cranked over with no issues, but it wouldn't start. She went back into the store to tell the owner who's truck it was and to let her know we'd be back to get it when I got home. She tried one more time before she left, and it fired right up. She drove it home (about 6 blocks) and parked it.

Fast forward a week. I got in the Rover to go for a drive. Same issue, cranked forever but wouldn't start. I had to get somewhere, so I took my car. I hadn't had any time to troubleshoot the issue until today. This morning, it fired up almost immediately.

I realize not starting means one of two things; no fuel or no spark. After cranking on it for a while, I don't smell any gas, so I figure it must be a fuel issue. Can the pump relay or the impact sensor cause intermittent problems like this? Since the problem doesn't occur all of the time, it seems like this is going to be a PITA to troubleshoot.

Thanks,
-JP

 

[ptschram]

Pull the coil wire from the distributor to look for spark. If spark present, replace the coil wire and pull a spark plug wire to look for spark. If no spark, suspect rotor.

If both provide proof of spark, then we can look for fuel. On a pre-'95 rig. fuel pressure testing is a PITA.

PT

 

[deadbeat son]

Thanks for the tip PT. Hopefully the next time it won't start, I'll have some time to troubleshoot; intermittent problems drive me mad!

-JP

 

[deadbeat son]

Okay...so I took the Rover dirtbiking today, and it ran great. Went to take it to the grocery store later, and it wouldn't start. I looked under the front of the passenger seat for the relays, and saw there were two ECUs. (One on top of the other.) Top one was unplugged, but could possibly make contact given the right circumstance. I plugged it back in, and voila! It fired up!

Which ECU is this? Would it prevent the truck from starting if disconnected, or is this coincidence?

Thanks,
-JP

 

[deadbeat son]

Never mind; I just realized that's the EAS ECU. I'm going to go back and disconnect it again.

-JP

 

[deadbeat son]

Okay, since this problem is sporadic and I can't re-create it consistently, I've decided to do some preventive maintenance so I have enough faith in the Rover to take it on a camping/dirt biking trip. Here's what I plan to change to hopefully solve whatever the problem is:

Fuel Pump Relay
Fuel Pump
Ignition Coil
Rotor
Distributor Cap

The plugs were replaced about 5k ago when the 100k mile service was done. The truck is a 94 SWB with the 3.9L and just under 105k on the ticker. Is there anything else I should replace in addition to the above? I'd like to know by this afternoon so I can get the parts ordered today and get the work done before my trip next weekend.

Thanks!
-JP

 

[RETROV]

Okay, since this problem is sporadic and I can't re-create it consistently, I've decided to do some preventive maintenance so I have enough faith in the Rover to take it on a camping/dirt biking trip. Here's what I plan to change to hopefully solve whatever the problem is:

Fuel Pump Relay
Fuel Pump
Ignition Coil
Rotor
Distributor Cap

The plugs were replaced about 5k ago when the 100k mile service was done. The truck is a 94 SWB with the 3.9L and just under 105k on the ticker. Is there anything else I should replace in addition to the above? I'd like to know by this afternoon so I can get the parts ordered today and get the work done before my trip next weekend.

Thanks!
-JP

I am sort of having the same issue except the truck stalled on me as well as intermittent not starting.

All of the things you are suggesting to buy are good ideas to do on any old truck. I would also suggest doing the wires too while you're at it. And maybe consider the ignition amp module on the disty. I have run through fuel pressure testing, checked the batt power, checked voltage to the coil in all directions. You may also want to use a voltmeter and check +Battery to -Coil when cranking the engine. Do this one of the times when you can't get it started. It's real quick to check. Mine was fine on my truck. So I came down the air gap in the disty and maybe a dieing ignition amp module. There just isn't anything else in the system besides these things or some rediculous to trace short, which could be anywhere.

I would seriously consider the additional to things I mentioned because that's about all that's left that could be causing the problem. If you've got the spare cash, do both of them too.

 

[RETROV]

Ignition Coil

Do like what was suggested to me. Get a coil locally. I bought one for $13 the other night with a one year warranty. Just ask for a 12v with external resistor. Much cheaper and you can do that tonight!

 

[deadbeat son]

Do like what was suggested to me. Get a coil locally. I bought one for $13 the other night with a one year warranty. Just ask for a 12v with external resistor. Much cheaper and you can do that tonight!

Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, the no start issue has only occurred twice. Once when I wasn't around, and the second time I didn't have time to troubleshoot. I just don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere after a long day of riding dirt bikes to not be able to get a couple of hundred miles or so back home.

I've been watching your thread as well. I think the two things I'll add to my list are a fuel filter and the ignition module. As for coils, the OEM coil is only $20 more than a universal one, so I'll probably just go with that.

-JP

 

[RETROV]

A coil is a coil, but if you don't mind the extra $20 go for it. The other thing to ask for while your at it is the ignition module lead. What's another $50 at this point right?

You may want to call Gallager at Motorcars Ltd in Houston. They may be a little quicker on shipping by UPS ground than going with RN or AB. They are overnight at ground rates for me here in north Texas and don't ship out until about 4:00CST.

 

[ptschram]

Gallagher was the guy who lied to me when I was buying my Rovacom-Lite. Lied straight up and didn't back down when he was caught. I am glad I cost him the commission on a several thousand dollar piece of equipment.

Stay with honest vendors like Rovers North.

A coil is not a coil. There are many variations and using the wrong coil will cause more problems than what you're having now. Coils are fairly robust compared to the ignition amplifier.

 

[deadbeat son]

Got it all coming from BP. And as I mentioned in the previous post, I did end up getting the ignition module, but not the lead... I wasn't aware that may need replacement as well.

-JP

 

[RETROV]

Gallagher was the guy who lied to me when I was buying my Rovacom-Lite. Lied straight up and didn't back down when he was caught. I am glad I cost him the commission on a several thousand dollar piece of equipment.

Stay with honest vendors like Rovers North.

Not to argue about vendors, because really I don't care where the parts come from as long as they are the correct thing and priced fairly, but I haven't had any issues with Motorcars Ltd. On the other hand I did have RN tell me they were shipping some missing parts in something I had ordered and then forget to ship them until several days later. Cost me a weekend that I had planned to work on my truck. I e-mailed them about my complaint and they never said a peep or said sorry. Not that any of these vendors are "bad", they all have their faults. Maybe Motorcars will burn me, but up 'til now I've placed numerous orders from them and not had any issues. They've even told me not to buy some items from them because I could buy the parts locally cheaper. It's all in your situation. They all mess up from time to time. PT justifiably doesn't like Motorcars and I do. It's all based on personal experience.

 

[RETROV]

Got it all coming from BP. And as I mentioned in the previous post, I did end up getting the ignition module, but not the lead... I wasn't aware that may need replacement as well.

-JP

It may well be good on your truck. Then again it may be crap. It's one of those things that if you don't mind throwing the money at it you might as well get it. Frankly, if I had an unlimited budget I'd buy one of everything new for my truck and put it on the shelf as back up inventory. Don't worry about it now unless everything you've bought doesn't do the job.

 

[ptschram]

Retrov:
Good answer, none of the vendors are perfect. My issue with Motorcars is the fact that I was in the process of conducting a wire transfer of more than $5000 when the terms had been made very clear to them. If it hadn't been for my not having had a fax machine, they would have had my $ and wouldn't have had my computer.

I have by and large had good luck with most of the vendors of Rover stuff, save a very small number.

 

[deadbeat son]

I ended up not buying a new fuel pump, but got the rest of the parts installed. I ended up hiring out the ignition amplifier; I didn't feel like pulling the dizzy. After doing the coil, cap, and rotor (all genuine Lucas), the truck started a lot quicker than it did in the past. Maybe the coil was the culprit? The old rotor and cap looked okay.

Took it to my mechanic and he installed the amplifier and set the timing to 12deg. Seems to run pretty good. Here's to hoping my intermittent problem is solved!

-JP

 

[Rocky]

Coils are worth replacing at 100k.

 

[ptschram]

Coils are worth replacing at 100k.

I have 224K on one and 190K on another, both going strong.

 

[bovw]

Mine failed at 150k, but every truck is different. Although the rotor was bad also, maybe contributing to the coil.

 

[j_button]

So what I'm reading is that the problem is basically ignition, not fuel when you get into these long cranking start problems? So why does cranking for 30-60 seconds make the spark all of a sudden start to work? So the engine is basically flooded and cranking dries it out to where a weak spark will eventually fire? My girl friend has a '91 that has these symptoms. New fuel pump and filter didn't help, I'm willing to try about anything now. We have pulled the coil lead from the cap to check for spark and seems really good. So I guess it would be best to start with the cap and amp next?

Thanks.
-JB