Ironman 4x4 Buyer Beware

Jan 3, 2005
11,746
73
On Kennith's private island
I did not ship them the fridge just wrapped in plastic. The fridge was wrapped in plastic, covered with cork, and wrapped in plastic again. The cork covered everything but the top of the fridge. The top of the fridge is a steel lid. I figured a steel lid was sufficient for shipping something UPS. But apparently UPS throws shit out of a truck at 65MPH sometimes.

I had no idea about any UPS required packaging, or recommended packing, when I shipped the fridge. I still don't because I really just don't care enough to look in to it. So the cork was not 1" or 2" thick. It was 1/4" thick. There was 1/4" thick padding wrapped around a steel box. In the Yeti thread people were talking about how a Styrofoam cooler survives a trip from Alaska to Florida and that a Yeti is overkill for anything the universe can throw at it, but a steel box is suddenly very fragile and needs 2" of padding inside a package. That sounds reasonable. Even if so, the fridge had a dent in it when it arrived from the factory or from Lucky 8 or whoever else may have handled the thing along the way. So apparently even packaging handled by Ironman themselves is still susceptible to damage.

In high-in-sight sure, I should have sent the fridge back when it was new. But I was in a time crunch and needed a fridge this large for a cooking demonstration for the Travel Channel. If I remember right Justin had told me this was the very first and only Ironman 74q stateside. So getting a replacement at that time could have taken weeks. The risk was not worth the award. The fridge worked fine. It had a dent in it. Who fucking cares?

Von C sent me a screenshot from Mark of Ironman offering to have a look, free of charge, and diagnose my problem after they denied my warranty claim and I posted on several websites. You can't make this shit up. First I'm told there is a $75hr fee for this service; then I'm told it's an outside repair shop that looks these things over and it's not even done in-house; then all the sudden Mark can have a look free of charge and tell me exactly what's up. But he doesn't even tell me this. Mark did not email me. He didn't call me. He posted this on some website and then had the thread removed by some 52 year old fat guy who lives with his sister but has $6,000 worth of LED light bars and Jerry Cans bolted to his 1986 Nissan Hard Body he takes to the dessert once every 3 years for the weekend.

The fridge was insured for $800 through UPS. UPS picked up the fridge, inspected it, and denied the claim. They then shipped the fridge back to me. With that said, UPS did credit the UPS account $800. So they denied the claim yet gave my buddy a credit to his account. It does me no good but at least UPS made some effort. The fridge was sent back to me wrapped in plastic.

I did not photograph the fridge before shipping. I don't normally make it a practice to photograph my mail before dropping it off. Apparently I'm weird, I don't know. I did however catch the fridge in a photo I was taking of something else. You can see in the photo, sort of, how the fridge was wrapped in cork. The fridge it located just behind my Series. Ironman claims there was no cork on the fridge when they received it. I don't know if this is true or not because I was not there. But what could this thing have gone through to get all these dents and a layer of protection peeled away? It's not like that plastic wrap tears easily.

Tank1.JPG

The fridge is back with me now. I have not had time to look at it. I'm sure I can fix whatever is wrong with it for less than $75.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
What wire do you recommend?

I'd go with 8, but get it from a proper wire shop; high strand count, and clean copper. There actually are brands out there that are good to go with, but so long as it's relatively pure and has plenty of strands (technically it's a cable with many wires, but whatever) you're good.

The premium you pay at a parts store more than covers the increased expense of good wire (cable, whatever). It'll ring up about the same.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Who the fuck wraps something in cork? For that matter, why on Earth would it seem like a good idea to use 1/4" of flexible "protection" on something that large, rigid, and heavy?

Packaging isn't that difficult; but it does require a bit of thought...

More importantly it's not hard to understand why a Styrofoam cooler will survive long transit, and a steel box will be damaged. I suppose if you can't wrap your brain around that, packaging might be a bit confusing.

Maybe there is something to the Yeti, after all. If they'll let someone who can't figure out how to pack a steel box safely ship a kajillion dollars of Versaci beef across the country, the damned things will probably fertilize unicorn eggs.

Hell. They're clearly idiot-proof. Now I understand why many of us don't understand why you understand them.

We don't need the damned things.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

stu454

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2004
5,407
61
Atlanta, GA
Dan, a quarter inch of God's grace, much less cork, styrofoam, or unicorn fur, isn't enough padding to ship almost anything via any carrier.

Most anything whose sturdiness is less than an anvil needs at least three inches of padding.

If nothing else comes from this thread, maybe we can all learn how to adequately pack things for shipping.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
WTF…you need to run a 8 gauge wire to run a fridge…So according to that logic my truck should have burned to the ground in a electrical fire years ago

Or every house in America that uses a (full sized) fridge or microwave on a 20 amp circuit with 12 ga wire.

Or the fact that you can use a 12V plug with your 12V accessory port. What's the ga wire they use for that? 16? It certainly isn't 8ga? LOL

My money is on something loose inside. (or a bad module)
 

Mongo

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
5,731
2
59
What sucks is the fact you have to pack something that bulky in 3" of unobtanium for it even have chance to get to it's destination without getting trashed…I've seen UPS, Fedex and other destroy Pelican Cases
 

Mongo

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
5,731
2
59
Or every house in America that uses a (full sized) fridge or microwave on a 20 amp circuit with 12 ga wire.

Or the fact that you can use a 12V plug with your 12V accessory port. What's the ga wire they use for that? 16? It certainly isn't 8ga? LOL

My money is on something loose inside. (or a bad module)

No shit…the 12 volt accessory port in the back of a D2 is 14guage, and that is weaved into the wiring harness and goes thru the incredible durable, well thought out and impeccably designed "LUCAS" system.
 
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Ed Cheung

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2006
1,584
2
Hong Kong
Dan, just ship it back to Mark to fix it, since you already got the credits from UPS. Just let hims sort it out rather than taking it into your own hands, just like you should have return it back to Justin on the first day you had received it with a dent on it.
Of course he is not going to reply you on an email, since you post this case on an open forum, therefore he is answering you there.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
If nothing else comes from this thread, maybe we can all learn how to adequately pack things for shipping.

I wrote a whole thing about that a while back. Lost it, though.

It all comes down to understanding energy on an extremely basic level; how it can be converted, and how it can be directed.

There are really only three ways to package something, and they can be combined as required. Doesn't matter what you're trying to protect, you're going to use one or more of those three ways.

We've now seen the results of using one of those methods by itself when it shouldn't have been.

That sort of thing is good to prevent abrasion and adjust friction properties within a package, but it is not suitable for primary containment; especially for a rigid item with large, flat surfaces...

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Ed Cheung

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2006
1,584
2
Hong Kong
In terms of packing, I would bubble wrap it like it is a dead body, put it in a cardboard box, bubble wrap it again, and in another cardboard box and things need to be tight in there, no rattling. Simple as that.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,927
460
Darien Gap
Voltage drop across 8ft of 10ga at 15amps at 13.6v is only 0.24v. ARB is full of shit.

You could run 14ga wire and still only suffer 0.61v drop.





12v dc and 120v single phase ac are two different beasts. You're looking at 5% drop vs 0.5% for ac.
 

fishEH

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2009
6,930
203
Lake Villa, IL
Who the fuck wraps something in cork? For that matter, why on Earth would it seem like a good idea to use 1/4" of flexible "protection" on something that large, rigid, and heavy?

Packaging isn't that difficult; but it does require a bit of thought...

More importantly it's not hard to understand why a Styrofoam cooler will survive long transit, and a steel box will be damaged. I suppose if you can't wrap your brain around that, packaging might be a bit confusing.

Maybe there is something to the Yeti, after all. If they'll let someone who can't figure out how to pack a steel box safely ship a kajillion dollars of Versaci beef across the country, the damned things will probably fertilize unicorn eggs.

Hell. They're clearly idiot-proof. Now I understand why many of us don't understand why you understand them.

We don't need the damned things.

Cheers,

Kennith



You realize cork and Styrofoam share many of the same properties, right?
Cork is definitely an odd choice, mainly because most people don't have a lot of it lying around.
In HINDSIGHT(not whatever Dan was trying to say) I'm sure Dan wishes he had provided more protection. However, wrapping a steel object in a dense impact barrier like cork or Styrofoam isn't the worst idea ever.
The fact that Ironman 4x4 markets their products to the offroad and overland community then refuses to warranty a product based on cosmetics is troubling.
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
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La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
I remember that my fridge (sold by Home Depot, no brand that I can remember, but in appearance very similar to Ironman and likely made at the same place by the same people) came on a small pallet, with 3/8" plywood bottom, in a dense cardboard box, with about 2" air gap between the walls and the fridge, and with dense foam angle blocks keeping the unit fixed inside the box.

"Properly packaging" this fridge (to likely Kennith's taste, meaning the container could be dropped from 20ft) would require a 200-lb hard-side container and a lot of foam peanuts or bubble wrap or whatever else. Were I ship it anywhere, it'll be in a cardboard box about 2-3" larger than the fridge, with the void filled with peanuts or bubble wrap, with a giant sticker "FRAGILE" on the side. It would not protect it from being dropped off the liftgate, but it would be perfectly reasonable to hit the shipper for damage.
 

DiscoPhoto

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2012
2,581
76
Vermont
You realize cork and Styrofoam share many of the same properties, right?
Cork is definitely an odd choice, mainly because most people don't have a lot of it lying around.
In HINDSIGHT(not whatever Dan was trying to say) I'm sure Dan wishes he had provided more protection. However, wrapping a steel object in a dense impact barrier like cork or Styrofoam isn't the worst idea ever.
The fact that Ironman 4x4 markets their products to the offroad and overland community then refuses to warranty a product based on cosmetics is troubling.

...I think the point of the fridge is that it gets mounted in the vehicle, unlike some of the other coolers in this thread.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
You realize cork and Styrofoam share many of the same properties, right?
Cork is definitely an odd choice, mainly because most people don't have a lot of it lying around.

Yeah, but you may as well just smear it in Vaseline if you're going to use a quarter inch layer with no containment.

Cheung nailed it. Cage that bitch and keep it tight. :applause:

Make sure there are handles in good spots, if you can. That encourages less violent handling.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
...I think the point of the fridge is that it gets mounted in the vehicle, unlike some of the other coolers in this thread.

Yup.

I wouldn't expect Engel to do anything for free on my unit, given it's taken a couple of serious tumbles. I keep it clean, maintain it properly, and it pretty much looks new after all these years. Damned thing's been everywhere, and it's still sexy.

Even so, it's been subjected to unreasonable force. There are some dents after a spin cycle in the back of a trim-less DII. Things got fast and rough, and it just broke free; right in a nasty corner, just before a few deep washboards.

That's not use; it's abuse. Now, I didn't mean to do it, but that doesn't matter.

Letting something slide around all over the damned place and get as filthy as the Ironman isn't something I'd warranty as a manufacturer. Ruggedized equipment is great, but one is expected to maintain it and use it sensibly.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
Jan 3, 2005
11,746
73
On Kennith's private island
It all comes down to understanding energy on an extremely basic level; how it can be converted, and how it can be directed.

There are really only three ways to package something, and they can be combined as required. Doesn't matter what you're trying to protect, you're going to use one or more of those three ways.

We've now seen the results of using one of those methods by itself when it shouldn't have been.

That sort of thing is good to prevent abrasion and adjust friction properties within a package, but it is not suitable for primary containment; especially for a rigid item with large, flat surfaces...

Cheers,

Kennith

Kenny getting ready to package something for shipping.

r-MILLENIUM-MATH-PROBLEM-large570.jpg