Just bought a 1966 IIA 88 Station Wagon. Just thought I would share my excitement over the newest member of the family and my new money pit!
Sean
Sean
Just bought my first Series
- Thread starter SLloyd
- Start date
A
Andre
Guest
So does my wife. 
It took a lot of pleading and negotiations, but she finally agreed.
I'll post a picture as soon as I figure out how.
It took a lot of pleading and negotiations, but she finally agreed.I'll post a picture as soon as I figure out how.
A
Andre
Guest
Whoa snap, is that an OEM air dam!!?? They came on a limited number of series 3s. Pull that off, preserve it, and wheel the 88.
Otherwise, it looks pretty good! Congrats!!
Otherwise, it looks pretty good! Congrats!!
SLloyd said:Here she is. Maybe not the most beautiful one ever, but she is to me.
I'm actually looking for a series II (or IIa, as long as it has the bugeye headlights and metal dashboard) myself, very nice, best of luck with it!
enjoy the new beast. lots of good information on Series vehicles here as well as other sites. check out the bbs called Guns and Rovers - very nice folks and lots of Series help.
best of luck finding one as it was only officially imported in one year - 1968.
the dash went to plastic with the intro of the SIII so the Series versions before will have a metal dash.
Jaime
best of luck finding one as it was only officially imported in one year - 1968.
the dash went to plastic with the intro of the SIII so the Series versions before will have a metal dash.
Jaime
Blueboy said:
For the IIa, but series IIs are relatively easy to find. I've come across a few nice ones, I'm still a few years away, just trying to get an idea of what's out there and how much I should be spending for the condition that I want.
D
Dan Ratcliffe
Guest
Joe,
to help you out a little, Series IIs were made from 1958-1961.
Series IIa(s) were made from 1962 to 1971 or about 10 years and are what most folks recognize as a "Series" LR. There are the early year ones and the late year ones - the late IIA being from roughly 1968-1971.
The bugeye to which you refer was made in 1968 to quickly adapt to the then new headlight regulation which no longer allowed the lights in the grill area. The area around the lights was then better integrated into the wings in 1969.
you're on the right track to take your time in getting one to your liking.
Jaime
to help you out a little, Series IIs were made from 1958-1961.
Series IIa(s) were made from 1962 to 1971 or about 10 years and are what most folks recognize as a "Series" LR. There are the early year ones and the late year ones - the late IIA being from roughly 1968-1971.
The bugeye to which you refer was made in 1968 to quickly adapt to the then new headlight regulation which no longer allowed the lights in the grill area. The area around the lights was then better integrated into the wings in 1969.
you're on the right track to take your time in getting one to your liking.
Jaime
Blueboy said:
I made a mistake to the "bugeye" description, that's why I was confused about there only being one year of them. I actually meant the headlights inside on the grill, not out on the wings.
Old North State
Thanks for all the compliments!
And Dan, looking forward to taking it to some Old North State outings. I'll let my wife drive the Disco.
Sean
Thanks for all the compliments!
And Dan, looking forward to taking it to some Old North State outings. I'll let my wife drive the Disco.
Sean
New family member
Congradulations on your acquisition. I'm sure you will love it.
The Series Rover should be viewed as a giant Erector Set. *Everything* unbolts, comes apart, and can be fixed with a minimum of special tools - up to and including (in my case) a roadside rock. Get the "green bible," the factory overhaul/maintenance manual. You'll find that compared to the Disco, parts are downright cheap and virtually everything can be rebuilt three or four times before it actually needs replacement. I have yet (after 35 years) to find and oil seal or bearing that couldn't be sourced locally. There are also a world of upgrades, such as a 'murrican-made Delco alterntor if you aren't hung up about keeping everything 'original.'
Pay particular attention to defeating the rust worm. Carefully inspect the bulkhead/door post and the rear frame crossmembers. Plan on regular Waxoylings....
Cheers
Congradulations on your acquisition. I'm sure you will love it.
The Series Rover should be viewed as a giant Erector Set. *Everything* unbolts, comes apart, and can be fixed with a minimum of special tools - up to and including (in my case) a roadside rock. Get the "green bible," the factory overhaul/maintenance manual. You'll find that compared to the Disco, parts are downright cheap and virtually everything can be rebuilt three or four times before it actually needs replacement. I have yet (after 35 years) to find and oil seal or bearing that couldn't be sourced locally. There are also a world of upgrades, such as a 'murrican-made Delco alterntor if you aren't hung up about keeping everything 'original.'
Pay particular attention to defeating the rust worm. Carefully inspect the bulkhead/door post and the rear frame crossmembers. Plan on regular Waxoylings....
Cheers
Waxoyl
Thanks for the advice. I will order the manual tonight.
I have seen info on Waxoyl but don't know much about it. How is it applied? Just coat everything, or is there a trick?
Thanks,
Sean
Thanks for the advice. I will order the manual tonight.
I have seen info on Waxoyl but don't know much about it. How is it applied? Just coat everything, or is there a trick?
Thanks,
Sean
Welcome to the world of Series owners. And remember, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
Waxoyl
Waxoyl is the preferred rust-proofing compound. It never actually dries, so it can 'heal' itself if a portion is scraped off. You *don't* want any hard-setting compound like Ziebart, a mistake I made in 1972 when I bought my Rover new.
The trouble is that Waxoyl has gotten much more expensive. Since it is now a hazardous substance (it has petroleum solvents), shipping has gotten prohiibitively expensive. Some truly parsimonoius Rover overs have made a passable substitute by dissolving a wax toilet seal ring in a gallon of warmed chain-saw bar oil (has that 'cling' quality). Spray everything underneat except the exhaust. Pay particular attention to the inside of the frame. It probably would be a good idea to flush/blow all the drain holes clear first.
JC Whitless makes a neat undercoating spraying kit with a spray head, nozzles, wands and jugs. Throw away the undercoating that come with the kit....
If you can keep the frame in good shape, the Rover will run practically forever. If the SO questions your purchase, tell her it is probably worth more than your Disco right now....
Cheers
Waxoyl is the preferred rust-proofing compound. It never actually dries, so it can 'heal' itself if a portion is scraped off. You *don't* want any hard-setting compound like Ziebart, a mistake I made in 1972 when I bought my Rover new.
The trouble is that Waxoyl has gotten much more expensive. Since it is now a hazardous substance (it has petroleum solvents), shipping has gotten prohiibitively expensive. Some truly parsimonoius Rover overs have made a passable substitute by dissolving a wax toilet seal ring in a gallon of warmed chain-saw bar oil (has that 'cling' quality). Spray everything underneat except the exhaust. Pay particular attention to the inside of the frame. It probably would be a good idea to flush/blow all the drain holes clear first.
JC Whitless makes a neat undercoating spraying kit with a spray head, nozzles, wands and jugs. Throw away the undercoating that come with the kit....
If you can keep the frame in good shape, the Rover will run practically forever. If the SO questions your purchase, tell her it is probably worth more than your Disco right now....
Cheers
D
Dan Ratcliffe
Guest
I have compiled some of my previous posts about series ownership from the Old North State's board. Sorry about the length, but hopefully it will prove helpfull.
On soundness of the vehicle:
I would be leery of anyone who can provide distinct answers to the "reasonable" question. I have been driving my Series II 88 for a little over 6 years now, minus a 9 month rebuild after 4 years, about 80-90 miles a day. I couldn't answer those questions. I paid too much for it, have spent too much on it, get madder than hell at it, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Almost nothing I could say will prove true because so much of ownership is subjective, which ultimately determines value. My suggestion is to talk, in person or on the phone to as many series owners as possible to get a feel for what value means to them.
I can help to dispel some myths though.
If the car smokes a lot there is something wrong with the engine. A little smoke at start up is okay. If it is still smoking after 5 seconds, something is wrong.
A four or five inch puddle of oil is NOT "how English cars are made." Leaks like that mean a problem, sometimes they are problems you can live with. My greatest problem was listening to people who told me "it is supposed to be that way."
Gear oil spread all over the bottom of the car means seals are shot and will need to be replaced.
Tire wear on a land rover means the same thing it does on any car, steering problems, bad rims, or the like.
These cars do bolt together and will leak a little. Mostly water gets inside because the seals are dried out. They can only be fixed by replacing them.
If the car can't go 55 miles an hour with out sounding like it is tearing itself apart, something is wrong. If the car has a high-range transmission or overdrive crusing at 65 is a reasonable expectation.
Use all the normal tools and senses that you would use to buy any car.
The best tool is one of the regional English car repair facilities. Flying Circus English Cars in Durham, Blue Ridge Rover Works near Shelby, Thatched Roof Garage in Kingsport TN, and Singing Camel in Iowa are all great resources. I am not sure where you are. If possible, let them inspect the car. While no one is perfect they can certainly pick out those you should run away from.
Make a list of everything about the car that you think looks the littlest bit funny, and ask folks if any of it poses a problem.
In the end, you might find that a older range rover or disco will give you every thing you need and more in a land rover.
On Price:
After all of this, I have to tell you that I knew most of this before I bought mine. Even with all of this information, I saw the picture, fell in love, drove all the way to New Hampshire, bought it at first look, loaded it on a trailer and hauled it home. Since then I have spent $10- 14,000 making it the car I love today.
I think if I were going to buy another series I would follow these price guidelines.
Unrestored and sound and a daily driver 4500 - 8000
Unrestored and sound 3000 -6000
Unrestored and not running 0 - 2500
Bad frame(if EVERY thing else is okay) never more than 1000 [new frame= 1900-2500 having someone else reframe the vehicle 1500 - 3000, if nothing else goes wrong]
Bad bulkhead Free
Engine does not run but every thing else SEEMS to work, never more than never more than 2500
Body bad, frame and engine good, 3500 - 4500
Decent runner, LOTS of home made modifications, non original parts, 2500 - 5500
When I bought mine, I paid 7500 for it, too much. I do not think he would have sold it for much less. It seemed to run fine. The body was in okay shape. The interior was complete, but heavily worn. By the time I got it home and after about two days of driving it around, I had to replace the battery; replace both swivel pin housings and completely rebuild front axle housing, converting to railko bushings, new races, bearings etc; replace all hub bearings and seals, races etc; replace all the road springs, replace the fuel tank(when I filled it up it had a hole at about the 5 gallon mark); replaced ALL differential and output shaft seals and replaced the front drive shaft. All of this was done in the first two months.
I think that unless a substantial rebuild can be proven, you must expect at least 1500 - 2500 to be spent on the small bits. If you have to do a major part replacement, it can get quite crazy.
I would also say that anyone selling their series would tell you I do not know what I am talking about!
On living with the beast:
As we are talking about series ownership, and here are a couple of things I have done to make things a little easier.
I put speed nut (clips) on my wings where they attach to the bulkhead. I also used them on the splatter guard inside the wing. These simple adjustments, along with an electric screw driver and a 7/16th inch socket, allow me to pop the wings off in about 7-10 minutes. It makes access to the engine compartment VERY nice.
When I rebuilt the car, I loosened and retightened every nut and screw I could find. This makes taking them off much easier later.
I really try, not always successfully, to follow the original maintenance schedules. Now that my weekly mileage has dropped from 400 miles per week to about 200, that should be easier to accomplish.
I try and maintain a critical spares lot. Felt/rubber seals for axle ends and output shafts, one set of hub bearings, hub seals, and a complete set of brake shoes, oil filter, wiper blades, brake fluid, spark plugs, hoses belts and the like. Having the tune up items on hand allows me hit those items at a moment?s notice when plans change and I have more control over my schedule.
Converting to electronic ignition is one of the best things I have ever done. I use the Crane set up, after Pertronics let me down, and I have been very happy!
Make your series your daily driver. This is tough at first as you bring the car up to speed, but in the long run the maintenance falls in to the same pattern as any other car and it no longer feels like something is always breaking.
Finally, genuine parts are all I try to use. Here is how it breaks down for me, it is a discussion of time=value versus mileage=value. I have never had a non genuine part last more than 1 year, an issue of time or mileage? A non genuine part is 25%- 50% cheaper, this is true, but how often must you replace it?
I was talking with one of my local repair facilities lately and he told me that I was a great tester for parts durability because of the mileage I drive. If I were only driving 5000 miles a year (figure 100 miles per week, high for many series drivers), a 15-20,000 mile part lasts me 3 to 4 years. If however, I drive 20,000 miles in a single year, I am replacing the same parts every year. Over a period of 4 years I have purchased the part 3 to 4 times losing $$ and more importantly time. I think my point is to set your mileage expectations. Low mileage equates to time=value. High mileage requires durability to equal value.
Just some thoughts,
Dan
On soundness of the vehicle:
I would be leery of anyone who can provide distinct answers to the "reasonable" question. I have been driving my Series II 88 for a little over 6 years now, minus a 9 month rebuild after 4 years, about 80-90 miles a day. I couldn't answer those questions. I paid too much for it, have spent too much on it, get madder than hell at it, and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Almost nothing I could say will prove true because so much of ownership is subjective, which ultimately determines value. My suggestion is to talk, in person or on the phone to as many series owners as possible to get a feel for what value means to them.
I can help to dispel some myths though.
If the car smokes a lot there is something wrong with the engine. A little smoke at start up is okay. If it is still smoking after 5 seconds, something is wrong.
A four or five inch puddle of oil is NOT "how English cars are made." Leaks like that mean a problem, sometimes they are problems you can live with. My greatest problem was listening to people who told me "it is supposed to be that way."
Gear oil spread all over the bottom of the car means seals are shot and will need to be replaced.
Tire wear on a land rover means the same thing it does on any car, steering problems, bad rims, or the like.
These cars do bolt together and will leak a little. Mostly water gets inside because the seals are dried out. They can only be fixed by replacing them.
If the car can't go 55 miles an hour with out sounding like it is tearing itself apart, something is wrong. If the car has a high-range transmission or overdrive crusing at 65 is a reasonable expectation.
Use all the normal tools and senses that you would use to buy any car.
The best tool is one of the regional English car repair facilities. Flying Circus English Cars in Durham, Blue Ridge Rover Works near Shelby, Thatched Roof Garage in Kingsport TN, and Singing Camel in Iowa are all great resources. I am not sure where you are. If possible, let them inspect the car. While no one is perfect they can certainly pick out those you should run away from.
Make a list of everything about the car that you think looks the littlest bit funny, and ask folks if any of it poses a problem.
In the end, you might find that a older range rover or disco will give you every thing you need and more in a land rover.
On Price:
After all of this, I have to tell you that I knew most of this before I bought mine. Even with all of this information, I saw the picture, fell in love, drove all the way to New Hampshire, bought it at first look, loaded it on a trailer and hauled it home. Since then I have spent $10- 14,000 making it the car I love today.
I think if I were going to buy another series I would follow these price guidelines.
Unrestored and sound and a daily driver 4500 - 8000
Unrestored and sound 3000 -6000
Unrestored and not running 0 - 2500
Bad frame(if EVERY thing else is okay) never more than 1000 [new frame= 1900-2500 having someone else reframe the vehicle 1500 - 3000, if nothing else goes wrong]
Bad bulkhead Free
Engine does not run but every thing else SEEMS to work, never more than never more than 2500
Body bad, frame and engine good, 3500 - 4500
Decent runner, LOTS of home made modifications, non original parts, 2500 - 5500
When I bought mine, I paid 7500 for it, too much. I do not think he would have sold it for much less. It seemed to run fine. The body was in okay shape. The interior was complete, but heavily worn. By the time I got it home and after about two days of driving it around, I had to replace the battery; replace both swivel pin housings and completely rebuild front axle housing, converting to railko bushings, new races, bearings etc; replace all hub bearings and seals, races etc; replace all the road springs, replace the fuel tank(when I filled it up it had a hole at about the 5 gallon mark); replaced ALL differential and output shaft seals and replaced the front drive shaft. All of this was done in the first two months.
I think that unless a substantial rebuild can be proven, you must expect at least 1500 - 2500 to be spent on the small bits. If you have to do a major part replacement, it can get quite crazy.
I would also say that anyone selling their series would tell you I do not know what I am talking about!
On living with the beast:
As we are talking about series ownership, and here are a couple of things I have done to make things a little easier.
I put speed nut (clips) on my wings where they attach to the bulkhead. I also used them on the splatter guard inside the wing. These simple adjustments, along with an electric screw driver and a 7/16th inch socket, allow me to pop the wings off in about 7-10 minutes. It makes access to the engine compartment VERY nice.
When I rebuilt the car, I loosened and retightened every nut and screw I could find. This makes taking them off much easier later.
I really try, not always successfully, to follow the original maintenance schedules. Now that my weekly mileage has dropped from 400 miles per week to about 200, that should be easier to accomplish.
I try and maintain a critical spares lot. Felt/rubber seals for axle ends and output shafts, one set of hub bearings, hub seals, and a complete set of brake shoes, oil filter, wiper blades, brake fluid, spark plugs, hoses belts and the like. Having the tune up items on hand allows me hit those items at a moment?s notice when plans change and I have more control over my schedule.
Converting to electronic ignition is one of the best things I have ever done. I use the Crane set up, after Pertronics let me down, and I have been very happy!
Make your series your daily driver. This is tough at first as you bring the car up to speed, but in the long run the maintenance falls in to the same pattern as any other car and it no longer feels like something is always breaking.
Finally, genuine parts are all I try to use. Here is how it breaks down for me, it is a discussion of time=value versus mileage=value. I have never had a non genuine part last more than 1 year, an issue of time or mileage? A non genuine part is 25%- 50% cheaper, this is true, but how often must you replace it?
I was talking with one of my local repair facilities lately and he told me that I was a great tester for parts durability because of the mileage I drive. If I were only driving 5000 miles a year (figure 100 miles per week, high for many series drivers), a 15-20,000 mile part lasts me 3 to 4 years. If however, I drive 20,000 miles in a single year, I am replacing the same parts every year. Over a period of 4 years I have purchased the part 3 to 4 times losing $$ and more importantly time. I think my point is to set your mileage expectations. Low mileage equates to time=value. High mileage requires durability to equal value.
Just some thoughts,
Dan
Dan,
That's some great information that you have compiled. Definitely will help me when I get closer to actually buying one.
That's some great information that you have compiled. Definitely will help me when I get closer to actually buying one.