Lets Buy LR!

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
You know, they could sell more Land Rovers if they could get the dealers out there. I've got to drive a hundred miles to reach a dealer. When you could buy a Discovery for the price of a well appointed explorer, they still didn't sell. Why? You can get an Explorer right around the corner.

Most people just shop around and buy something, and if the dealer isn't there, then it's not an option. Almost everyone I have tried to get into a Rover that actually considered it decided against it due to the distance to the dealer, and the various inconveniences it caused.

I can open any magazine out there and see a Chevy advertisement, but only a few enthusiast magazines and high dollar magazines have Land Rover advertisements, and then only on the odd occasion.

Land Rover's problem in America is, and always has been piss poor marketing. If it was run properly, it would make plenty of money.

Get the dealers out there, buy some real advertising, expand the lineup to compete in the all wheel drive sedan and wagon segment, and bring in some real off road machines to keep the chest pounders happy. It's not complicated. Land Rover has the potential to be a big auto maker, but they, and their parent companies, continually snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
6,758
3
Oregon
www.flickr.com
you know... you raise a good point. I mean, I wonder if someone started a serious campaign online to connect Rover owners around the world to do a owner/worker buyout so that it is owned by, driven by, and built by owners and workers...

hummmmm...
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
I will change all my investment plans and join in with people just to see the offers that companies make for the company and the looks on their faces after it would theoretically impove sales and get better and once again be badass.

Chances are we'd end up with a "Homer" type land rover. It'd look fine from the outside, but I bet we'd end up putting way too many switches and crazy shit on the inside.
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
6,758
3
Oregon
www.flickr.com
I would think LR would do well with the segment it has, but to allow for the Defender to imported with the Tdi, and for a segment to be dedicated to the off-road-out-of-the-box concepts.

I really think that not a lot needs to change at LR, but that they need to realize that their base is no longer going to be thier base when this current line-up of vehicles reaches the used market for people who buy nothing buy LR and off-road in nothing but LR. I mean, how many of us here actually drive new LR's? At the most we either buy used Discos from the dealer, or our second vehicle for the soccer mom is a new one. That is the direction LR is continuing to go, which by definition, really has no future!

Why is it that Jeep is doing so well keeping the same body in the Wrangler that they have had for decades? Because it works!
 

ChicagoDon

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2005
1,491
2
38
Chicago IL
RBBailey said:
I mean, how many of us here actually drive new LR's? At the most we either buy used Discos from the dealer, or our second vehicle for the soccer mom is a new one. That is the direction LR is continuing to go, which by definition, really has no future!

Eh, when the MkIII RRs are in the lower teens I'll buy one and SAS it front and rear. Making the computer system hate its life. :applause:
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
RBBailey said:
I would think LR would do well with the segment it has, but to allow for the Defender to imported with the Tdi, and for a segment to be dedicated to the off-road-out-of-the-box concepts.

I really think that not a lot needs to change at LR, but that they need to realize that their base is no longer going to be thier base when this current line-up of vehicles reaches the used market for people who buy nothing buy LR and off-road in nothing but LR. I mean, how many of us here actually drive new LR's? At the most we either buy used Discos from the dealer, or our second vehicle for the soccer mom is a new one. That is the direction LR is continuing to go, which by definition, really has no future!

Why is it that Jeep is doing so well keeping the same body in the Wrangler that they have had for decades? Because it works!

There is a difference. The wrangler is much cheaper than the Defender. So, the defender needs to be cheaper to compete. In order for that to happen, two other things need to happen.

First, the production needs to be streamlined a bit, but they were planning on that anyway. They can still keep the off road character of the vehicle, but production really does need to be re-evaluated.

Second, they need to sell more normal vehicles to justify re-entering a niche market.

They are at a point where they have to make a choice. Sell out, or throw down the gauntlet.

Here is how I would do it:

Market the vehicles as I said in the last post. They really need good marketing at the moment. Get the advertisements in magazines people actually READ, and the newspapers. It wouldn't hurt to pay a few guys to drive Rovers around and advertise in local papers, as well as showing up at various public functions with a booth and a test course. Advertise on television on a variety of channels, and maby a few infomercials. That's lots of airtime for less money, and people do watch them. Test the vehicles against the competition on film. Piss off the other guy, this generates publicity. Free publicity.

Use the interweb. Host video contests to win cars, whatever interweb people like. People look at this damn thing. I'm typing on it right now.:D

Develope a sedan and wagon based on the former Freelander platform, and a shrunken Range Rover platform. These are both great frames in many ways, and would survive the translation well. Jump straight for Subaru's throat from the getgo, and market directly to the safety conscious driver and the performance crowd with the freelander based cars, go after the higher end Japanese sector. Target Audi, BMW and Mercedes with the Range Rover based cars. If you can build a luxurious SUV, you can build a luxurious car. Since Rover doesn't know how to build a car, hire someone who does.

Flat out buy hybrid technology from another manufacturer, if there is a parent company, it will probably be available for little cost beyond integration. This will give the company a greener image, which looks like it will be en vogue for a while. Make sure all the vehicles in the lineup are at least competitive on the emissions side of things.

These things will allow the company to pay for the Defender.

The Defender is the odd man out. Remember when the Range Rover was treated as a seperate brand? That's what needs to happen. Focus primarily on industrial customers and advertising, fleet vehicles, and the off road segment. Offer an off the shelf diesel motor that has the balls to compete in the markets where it will be sold. Get it from the parts bin of another company if you have to. Make sure everyone knows you are building the toughest work truck out there. Voluntarily pit it up against the competition regularly, make a big fuss over it, piss off the other guy, like I said before.

This will neccessitate a re-design of the defender. It's being re-designed anyway. Leaf springs in the rear, with vestigal coil perches for an off road package that can be added upon ordering. a beefed up frame, possibly hydroformed will be in order. The defender would be offered in 130" pickup configurations with a tilt bed, 110" configurations as a double cab extended bed, or a single cab extended bed, and 90 inch as a coil sprung wrangler/hummer competitor. The frame can be manufactured in three pieces, like trucks, with various center sections being installed to produce the various wheelbases. It will also need to be a few inches wider. Same car, simply produced more effeciently, with more off the shelf parts, and bigger and badder.

Pair up with dealers across the country initially, to get the vehicles in as many towns as possible. This is where a parent company helps.

If the british unions bitch, build them in America.

Oh, yeah. Here is the best way in the world for Land Rover to gain publicity. You won't like it... So stop reading if you are sensitive.





If Porsche can build an SUV, than Land Rover can build a sports car.



:popcorn:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Robert Godshall

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
93
0
41
King of Prussia, PA
I'm going to do my best to compete with all of the business talk. I would have to agree with Kennith, the dealerships are too few and far between. Also the advertising campaign has been very lack luster. Most of the dealerships that I have been to over the past few years have been catering too soccer moms and yuppies alike. Bailey you made a great point as well; if LR would import the defender it would definitely improve its market coverage. Long story short, if Land Rover grew some big brass ones and maybe hire people with some semblance of marketing and business savvy they could possibly survive on their own and stop being the prostitute of car manufactures. Just about everybody has had a turn.


This concludes my current statement
Robert Godshall
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
We will compromise.

I'll accept the position of VP in charge of model dating. That way, I can still grab the limelight for the brand.:D

I don't know about the Cayenne, though. That thing may not be out rock crawling every day, but it's no slouch, either. Porsche isn't new to all wheel drive. As a matter of fact, they are damn good at it from a performance perspective, even off pavement. I'd love to take a Cayenne to Pikes Peak. I think it was in Road and Track, but I could be wrong, some magazine had an article about just that.:drool:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

antichrist

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2004
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68
Atlanta, GA
I've been thinking for years rover owners should buy the company, at least since before it was sold to BMW.
I personally don't want the Defender to be "bigger and badder". For a true off-roader it's at the optimal size. Anything wider/bigger would limit it.
I'd like to see it have a long term stable platform, like the Series rovers did. There's a lot to be said for not having change for change's sake.
The frames are simple ennough that they could be built to the size needed, 90, 110, 130, 150 etc. And definately a ladder box frame.
They should also be designed with working in the wilds in mind. Easy to repair, minimal electrics/electronics. A basic tough 4WD, then all the bells and whistles added as options.
Most importantly, they should be desigened from the ground up for off-pavement use. No CV joint rubber boots, no protruding door handles to get broken, simple lighting that doesn't cost a fortune to fix, basically flat panels that can be beaten back in to shape, a return of the windscreen vents to keep the cabin pressurized in dusty areas. And the reason for all of this should be pointed out in the marketing. Fine, sell it on "image", but also sell it on the intelligent design.
How many ads have you seen that point out the low points of the drive train are all in a straight line for a reason?

For the other vehicles, build whatever will sell to the metro's to keep the pounds coming in to finance the niche defender.
 

JeffM

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
1,135
0
New Hampshire
kennith said:
If the british unions bitch, build them in America.

Oh yeah that'll make all the difference ;) Like we don't have union problems and crappy workmanship problems over here :D

But you are pretty much on the money with the rest though - Land Rover should also bring back the Llama (new forward control) - with better drive train they could compete head on with MB/Unimog - and of course be able to compete again for military contracts.

They also need to fire some of the designers - especially the ass clown that designed some of the crap on the D1/D2.
 
First off, a coupla years ago, I tried to buy a franchise. By the time they finally decided to return my phone call (or, I was able to finally chase the SOB down), I explained that I had a list of investors, $ pledged and a start on the business plan. I was rudely told that there were no franchises available and I was hung up on. For reasons that escape me, they don't want to sell more trucks.

Secondly, I'll put up some $, but I get to be VP of engineering.

PT
 

lifeslemon

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2006
563
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35
Waukesha, Wisconsin
www.myspace.com
Kennith: No, you advertise.

Antichrist: You design the Defenders.

JeffM: You track down and fire the assclown that designed some of the crap on the DI's and II's.

PT: I need more cridentials before I appoint you.

Rovercanus: VP of VP's. You keep them in line.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
AntiChrist,

You are right about the Defender, I was just brainstorming on how we could get Americans who are out buying big pickups to purchase one. I like it as is, but I think it will probably need more get up and go, and definately a Diesel to really come in and make a splash. With a neccessary re-design on the horizon, there is absolutely no reason they can't bring it back. I think they could sell the tar out of them, but they will need to come up with a way to green the image a bit though.

I like her small, nimble, and simple just as much as you do.:)

The America thing was sort of a joke.:D I think our situation is probably better than Englands, though.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
The cool thing is, if you expand the rest of the line, the Defender can be whatever you want it to. It doesn't need to make as much money, and you don't need to sell it to yuppies.

Cheers,

Kennith