Lets Buy LR!
- Thread starter lifeslemon
- Start date
I have $32.64 but with all of the brain power we got on here I'm sure we can get a plan together and convince more people to come along, and if that doesn't work we can always "convince" them
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Line up expansion is the key I think. That an widespread availability, make cars,wagons, trucks, SUV's, and maybe even a dare I say it sports car. And make them for everyone, choices for yuppies and off-road driving. The issue that comes along with that is makeing them simple enough to fix in the field for us yet refined enough for the people who think getting little Suzie to ballet practice it an extreme adventure.
This concludes my current statement
Robert Godshall
. Line up expansion is the key I think. That an widespread availability, make cars,wagons, trucks, SUV's, and maybe even a dare I say it sports car. And make them for everyone, choices for yuppies and off-road driving. The issue that comes along with that is makeing them simple enough to fix in the field for us yet refined enough for the people who think getting little Suzie to ballet practice it an extreme adventure.
This concludes my current statement
Robert Godshall
kennith said:AntiChrist,
You are right about the Defender, I was just brainstorming on how we could get Americans who are out buying big pickups to purchase one. I like it as is, but I think it will probably need more get up and go, and definately a Diesel to really come in and make a splash. With a neccessary re-design on the horizon, there is absolutely no reason they can't bring it back. I think they could sell the tar out of them, but they will need to come up with a way to green the image a bit though.
I like her small, nimble, and simple just as much as you do.
The America thing was sort of a joke.
Cheers,
Kennith
They just need to offer the latest V8 TDi in the defender - upgraded brakes, sort out all the leaks, better axles and maybe even offer part-time 4wd ala series (updated of course) - that would be a screamer - then offer either a 'basic' version or a posh version complete with the same type of kit as the latest RR's. The only thing that makes me shudder is that in order for it to be a big hit over here - there would have to be ten tonne of chrome all over it
Maybe also offer the D145 for sale - that would give the option of having a full size bed and crew cab Still think they should also offer a modern 101FC I'd be all over that.
IF BMW ever bought LR again, (never happening) then this could be the result instead of the small LR
http://henrypayne.com/images/cartoons/car-toon/2006/january/0131CARtoonMiniSUV.gif
http://henrypayne.com/images/cartoons/car-toon/2006/january/0131CARtoonMiniSUV.gif
antichrist said:
90w is easier to change, the "lifetime" grease my 98D1 uses means taking crap apart and scooping it out... I'd rather drain and refill if I had the choice..
kennith said:
Well over a decade ago, there was a small coterie of knowledgeable, hard-core 4X4 folks at LRNA who proposed something radical. A "mothership" and "satellite" type of dealership. A major location in a hub city with smaller locations in other nearby towns maybe with a new vehicle or two on the lot but with the parts and service availability.
This might as well been papal heresy, and I believe the instigators were bannished to the outermost reaches of the realm. Land Rover corporate wanted to keep the air of exclusivity, and the big dealerships was the way to accomplish that.
As I mentioned in a concurrent thread, never has any corporate entity made as many stupid decisions as Land Rover, yet somehow survived.
apg said:
Wasn't this part of a thread a few months ago? I loved the idea, and I think it was Alyssa who said that her former dealership was a test-bed for such and it was horrible....
I think, though, that it must have been her particular market....
Cost/money/asking price of a new Rover aside, it'd be foolish to buy a new Rover here where I'm at, IMHO, w/o being an addict who is going to wrench on it yourself. Knoxville and Asheville are a bit of a drive from here. It might not be too far to go to shop and buy a vehicle, but it's too far to expect to have decent dealership support. And, new Rovers aren't Series.... the Def/D1/RRC was the last of the "easy (enough) to work on" vehicles... you can do a lot on a P38 but how many electrical nightmares have we heard of w/ them? The RRC? How about the LR3 for the do-it-yourself fella w/ a set of wrenches in the garage? An RRS?
Even when I had my old '81 Wag, I found dealer support useful. I had problem with it (this is before I started doing a lot of my own wrenching, and big part of why I do my own now), and a local shop kept working on it and kept working on it, and they couldn't get it to run smoothly... they'd work on it, say it was done, and it'd not run 15-minutes before I had it back to the shop, over and over... (and unfortunately, they were about the best shop in that particular town, gack...) finally, I gave up on them trying to refix it and drove over to the next town and took it to the dealer. They had it running smoothly the next day.... the other shop had the distributor off by a tooth, and you just couldn't get it timed....
We all have heard the stealership stories, etc. No garage is perfect. But, you should at least have the ability to take a vehicle to a local dealer that has a reasonable knowledge of the vehicle. If there was an official LR garage in town here in Kingsport, or even in Bristol or Johnson City, then I could see that someone at least could take it there for support, even if it was bought from the main dealership in Knoxville, or delivered from them to the .... the satellite makes a lot of sense for this area, if LRNA isn't going to have a dealership here.
But, back to the gist of the root of the problem: the machines are becoming too complex for dependable use in the backcountry. Trailside fixes are becoming a thing of the past with the newer ones. Although they may be keeping up with impressive abilities off of the showroom floor, they're becoming giant gizmo toys instead of expedition backbones or even the stuff that they're heritage was founded on....
FWIW, IMHO....
Leslie said:
This is true with any new vehicle. in 10 years it's going to be difficult to get my kids an older good running car that doesn't have broken electronic gizmos. Can you imagine trying to fix a BMW i-drive system when it's 15yrs old? How about LR's suspension/drivetrain control?
I agree one of the vehicles we should sell is a Defender line with minimal electronics (engine control and radio). Sell the crap out of them in developing countries, import them to the US. We could offer the same type of thing in the LR2/LR3 and RR, but seeing as they're being marketed to soccer moms, they're not going to go for a stripped down version when their minivan had all those features.
my $.02 ($.00002 if you're Verizon)
I'm going to get flamed for this but her goes.
Have any of you wheeled with any new LR's? I used to think the LR was going down hill too but after wheeling with a few LR3's and new RR my option was changed. Both are really good off-road REALLY GOOD. With the expection of not being able to Rock crawl due to clearance which will change as mods become more and more able as they are now.
Went to Silver wood lake a few months back had two LR3's and the rest modded Discos and RR and one stock disco and a D90 the two LR3 kept up and out preformed the modded LR's. To say that LR has lost it's off-road pedigree is sooo wrong, sure the styling of the body and interier is more posh this is true but off-road there still good stock. Just wait in five to ten years you'll be seening a lot more LR3 RR on the trail as the mods get better.
As far as more Dealerships I would rather see more Indie shops cheaper and better work.
Have any of you wheeled with any new LR's? I used to think the LR was going down hill too but after wheeling with a few LR3's and new RR my option was changed. Both are really good off-road REALLY GOOD. With the expection of not being able to Rock crawl due to clearance which will change as mods become more and more able as they are now.
Went to Silver wood lake a few months back had two LR3's and the rest modded Discos and RR and one stock disco and a D90 the two LR3 kept up and out preformed the modded LR's. To say that LR has lost it's off-road pedigree is sooo wrong, sure the styling of the body and interier is more posh this is true but off-road there still good stock. Just wait in five to ten years you'll be seening a lot more LR3 RR on the trail as the mods get better.
As far as more Dealerships I would rather see more Indie shops cheaper and better work.
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Gonzo said:
A) Nope, no flames......
B) Nope, I can't afford new ones.
C) I believe I said that they *are* doing a great job at being effective off-the showroom floor (didn't I???)
D) I agree, indie shops would be good too; but if I spent $50k on a vehicle w/ a warranty, and have to have it towed two-hours to get back to the dealership, I'm gonna be one unhappy camper. (My Rovers are over a decade old, I can wrench on them myself, there aren't any local shops that deal w/ Rovers now). And, I don't think indie shops will come up for the new Rovers in this area, either.... For a RRC or a D1, maybe, D2 possibly, but anything newer, and indie shop could likely screw up and cost you more in the long run.....
E) The mods for an LR3 may be great, but it's the replacement parts to keep the thing on the road, having to have an electrical engineering degree, and automotive engineering degree, and an electrician's license to keep it running seems like it running, well..... No, I think ten years from now, most of the current LR3's will either have been maintained by well-healed folks who have spent far too much keeping it running at the dealerships because their aren't indies, or are being parted out in the junkyards to keep the ones that cheapskates are trying to keep running on their own... I really don't think you'll see droves of LR3's out there..... w/ time, I think you'll see more Series and beater imported Defenders on the trails, but not LR3's.....
FWIW.....
Gonzo, to simulate the LR3 state in 10-15 years, pull all the fuses on them except the one's required for the engine to run and cut all the air lines. That will be what they are like then, or what they would be like on an expedition to the middle of nowhere. Now tell me how well they do compared to a D1 of Defender in rought going.
Land Rover is killing themselves as far as any primitive area driving is concerned. When there is no longer a marked for the used vechicles because they are too expensive to repair when out of warranty, there will be no market for new ones.
I'll give you an similar situation. In 1995 in a meeting I told the head of IBM's software division and head if IBM PC/Server hardware that they needed to do two things. Keep up work on OS/2 and support developers, and the hardware division need to offer OS/2 preloaded on workstations and servers. I said otherwise the large customers, IBM's bread and butter, were going to go elsewhere for software, and when they did that, there would be little incentive to keep IBM hardware.
IBM quit developement on OS/2 and quit supporting developers. The hardware divsion went 100% Windows preload.
The bank I work for, about 80-100,000 workstations and servers in banking centers alone, that were 100% IBM software and hardware, are now microsoft, and once they went that route, they quit buying IBM hardware. We're now HP/Compaq.
Companies steadfastly refuse to look at the long term effects of their day to day decisions. Land Rover is no different.
Land Rover is killing themselves as far as any primitive area driving is concerned. When there is no longer a marked for the used vechicles because they are too expensive to repair when out of warranty, there will be no market for new ones.
I'll give you an similar situation. In 1995 in a meeting I told the head of IBM's software division and head if IBM PC/Server hardware that they needed to do two things. Keep up work on OS/2 and support developers, and the hardware division need to offer OS/2 preloaded on workstations and servers. I said otherwise the large customers, IBM's bread and butter, were going to go elsewhere for software, and when they did that, there would be little incentive to keep IBM hardware.
IBM quit developement on OS/2 and quit supporting developers. The hardware divsion went 100% Windows preload.
The bank I work for, about 80-100,000 workstations and servers in banking centers alone, that were 100% IBM software and hardware, are now microsoft, and once they went that route, they quit buying IBM hardware. We're now HP/Compaq.
Companies steadfastly refuse to look at the long term effects of their day to day decisions. Land Rover is no different.
Haha. Nice.az_max said:
So what your saying is we should make a Hunter model of each LR. That would be sweet. Two of each model, one for the soccer moms and pimps, and one for us!
The normal model could have the gizmosand whatnot. The the "Hunter" models could be striped of all the fancy crap and be left with a simple, easy to work on LR.
Gonzo said:
Yes I have wheeled with LR3's. They do very well. But, even with all the gizmos and air suspension and traction control they still hit bottom 10x more than there solid axled brothers. Spotting them is a whole other ball game. If you own one you have to resign to the fact that you will be hitting stuff that solid axled trucks do not hit. I recently did Nightmare Gulch and was very impressed with the 2 LR3's on the trail. Nathan walked right up the last hill that took me two attempts. Omid had to be winched but probably would have made it if he had aired his tires down. But even with lift kits they still hit where solid axles did not. They got through it but it took more spotting and more under body scraping and bashing. But, they did make it through.
Attachments
Independent suspension is not optimal for off-roading or rough terrain. Ok, if it's portal axles, it'll do well.
ptschram
Well-known member
lifeslemon said:
If I can't be VP of Engineering, I get to be head proofreader.
(At least I can spell-yes, an engineer who can spell and use the language as it was intended)