Lockers, axles, gears, and tires... it's time

[Jeff Blake]

I had to cut fenders front and rear to clear the 35's at full stuff. Riding around town It only rubbed on the front slider when turning. I ended up cutting about 1.5" off of the front of the sliders and about 1" off the corners of the front bumper. Rear was good with just the fender cutting. Thats with a 4" lift. Now that Im running the flexi flares I might lower the rear down a bit by replacing the D1 spring seat back with a D2 one. I have my suspension setup for mostly down travel. I only run about 3.5-4" of unrestricted shock up- travel before the progressive bumps come into play. I dont do any high speed stuff so this setup works for me. In the pic below, I cut for the flares, but hadnt cut the sliders or bumper yet. The front is at full stuff sitting on the bump stops, rear still had a bit more down travel to go.

thanks, good to know I'm good on the Greg davis bumper.

I have the terrafirma extended flares on right now (no cutting involved). I want to just get rid of the flares altogether, but it might look like shit after the cutting.

@K-rover, what bumpstops do you have? I have cheap britpart 90mm stops on right now, but I don't think they're long enough after adding converting to a rear panhard.

What about steering, and braking? Hydro assist... beefier calipers... any of that necessary? I don't know of any off the shelf options for either of those.

 

[K-rover]

thanks, good to know I'm good on the Greg davis bumper.

I have the terrafirma extended flares on right now (no cutting involved). I want to just get rid of the flares altogether, but it might look like shit after the cutting.

@K-rover, what bumpstops do you have? I have cheap britpart 90mm stops on right now, but I don't think they're long enough after adding converting to a rear panhard.

What about steering, and braking? Hydro assist... beefier calipers... any of that necessary? I don't know of any off the shelf options for either of those.

The bump stops I have mount on the shock shaft. You need to have rebuild-able shocks like Fox or Bilstiens. The ones I have are made by Intergra. They're just a progressive foam that gets stiffer as it compresses. Eibach makes them too. They have different stiffness and lengths. Look them up at Summit Racing.
So far I havent seen a need for any hydro assist. Id take a brake upgrade though! But the brakes on a D2 have always been lacking. If you dont have adjustable shock towers, I would recommend getting some. They let you really dial in your up/ down travel using the shock bumps.

 

[D Chapman]

Erik thinks he's knows me.

Frank Padavan had L8 install Ashcroft lockers. The last cool "event" Frank went to the truck never came off the trailer because the locker was broken. Frank told this story to me right in front of Justin and Erik at ROAV's Wintergreen "event" in 2018. It was also then Justin told me they've been having problems with the Ashcroft set-ups.

Someone is full of shit.

 

[roverover]

The issue with the Ashcroft locker is not the locker itself but a missed step in production.. Dave Ashcroft wouldn't put out even though we found new ones on the shelf that were missed.

In my opinion if you have an Ashcroft locker you should pulled apart and the bolts in the small cap removed and locktite put on and reinstalled.

The problem is they back out catch on the ring the heads snap off and eventually get picked up by the ring and everything gets devoured

It's a great locker much faster and less problematic than ARB but they could use better Customer service

 

[Jeff Blake]

Thanks for the tip.

Going with Ashcroft's.

For gears, is 4.12 the right way to go? Here's the ratio table:

My current setup 'should be' geared perfectly for my 235/85 tires (stock diffs, 1.41 high range), but I still struggle up freeway grades, the sweet spot being 3rd gear @ ~50 mph. If I ask for more speed, it'll hunt between 2nd and 3rd and I don't get much more power at all, sometimes it can be less. Granted, I haven't tested this again since removing almost 200 pounds off the roof rack (45L water tank, hi-lift, double jerry's, storage box), and another 100 ish pounds from the back. I run a clean bare rack now.

fwiw, engine compression is a perfect 180 on all cylinders, fresh rebuild. Other than burning a little oil the engine seems to be great. 4.0L

 

[fishEH]

I'd be looking to get as close to stock RPM's as possible.
Here's a comparison between completely stock on the left, and 315/75/16's & 4.12 diffs on the right(which I ran).
Also, you'll want to use the real tire diameter, not the generic 35, 36, etc. Most 35's are not 35" in diameter.

 

[kennith]

This is the first time I've ever heard someone say a bad thing about ashcroft lockers.

Well, they tend to take another design, have it produced in Asia, and sell it as a competitive option.

I have no idea if they're contacting the property holders or not, but I know that ATB is an Asian copy of a Quaife.

Personally, I had issues with clearances of their HD C/V joints. They went big instead of thinking too hard about it, and as a result I ended up with less than 1/8" of clearance between the boot securing band and the lower ball joint. That's not good enough for what I want.

I'm sure it's fine for playing in rocks, and someone here is enjoying them right now, but that's poor planning in my opinion.

So, I'm glad they exist, but I don't always approve of how they go about design. There are better options than just adding more metal at their prices, and I'm not super-convinced Quaife would bother authorizing a reproduction of their products.

Maybe they did. They're both U.K. companies, but one is absolutely MASSIVE. I find it hard to believe they'd have even taken the call.

Whatever. I don't know for sure; it always just smelled a bit funny to me. Maybe it's legit.

I do think if there were more competition out there, Ashcroft would have to do a little better on their products. I'm currently running their gears, but that's what was available in the ratio I wanted. Their older units were softer than factory, but these are supposed to be harder.

How do you run for that many years selling a self-admitted inferior alloy without noticing? You wait until someone catches you; that's how.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[Jeff Blake]

I'd be looking to get as close to stock RPM's as possible.
Here's a comparison between completely stock on the left, and 315/75/16's & 4.12 diffs on the right(which I ran).
Also, you'll want to use the real tire diameter, not the generic 35, 36, etc. Most 35's are not 35" in diameter.

Damn, I was aiming for 2700 rpm as per the calculator recommendation. Makes more sense to use factory specs as you said

I was hoping to get some more low range torque and lower speed in 1st, but if 2,500 rpm is the goal, I'll have to go with 3.75... or rebuild the transfer case again

 

[WNYDiscoIIErik]

Lucky8 has good prices on the locked diffs, but the pegging option is a bit spendy with them, ends up being about $500 more per diff than going to Ashcroft directly

What exactly are you comparing from me v. going direct?

 

[Jeff Blake]

What exactly are you comparing from me v. going direct?

Well I don't see 3.75 gears on your lockers page, but I'm sure you could do that, for sake of argument here's the comparison:

Ashcroft: $3,300 USD shipped
Lucky8: $4,356 shipped

 

[Jeff Blake]

Well, they tend to take another design, have it produced in Asia, and sell it as a competitive option.

I have no idea if they're contacting the property holders or not, but I know that ATB is an Asian copy of a Quaife.

Personally, I had issues with clearances of their HD C/V joints. They went big instead of thinking too hard about it, and as a result I ended up with less than 1/8" of clearance between the boot securing band and the lower ball joint. That's not good enough for what I want.

I'm sure it's fine for playing in rocks, and someone here is enjoying them right now, but that's poor planning in my opinion.

So, I'm glad they exist, but I don't always approve of how they go about design. There are better options than just adding more metal at their prices, and I'm not super-convinced Quaife would bother authorizing a reproduction of their products.

Maybe they did. They're both U.K. companies, but one is absolutely MASSIVE. I find it hard to believe they'd have even taken the call.

Whatever. I don't know for sure; it always just smelled a bit funny to me. Maybe it's legit.

I do think if there were more competition out there, Ashcroft would have to do a little better on their products. I'm currently running their gears, but that's what was available in the ratio I wanted. Their older units were softer than factory, but these are supposed to be harder.

How do you run for that many years selling a self-admitted inferior alloy without noticing? You wait until someone catches you; that's how.

Cheers,

Kennith

Yeah, I mean it's pretty much Ashcroft or stock. I wish there was more competition. I don't know much about Great Basin Rovers, but my spidey senses and research on the internet suggests Ashcroft is the way to go, unless you want to go nuts and swap a yota axle. Interesting about the CV's..

 

[kennith]

Yeah, I mean it's pretty much Ashcroft or stock. I wish there was more competition. I don't know much about Great Basin Rovers, but my spidey senses and research on the internet suggests Ashcroft is the way to go, unless you want to go nuts and swap a yota axle. Interesting about the CV's..

People make custom axles. I've been thinking about having some C/Vs made in the future, when I get the engine back sorted out.

They don't need to be bigger. They just need to be better. I found a few places from which to choose, but I don't remember them anymore. I'll have to start the research again. I know I'm not going to run that tight a clearance that close to gravel, dust, and light slop at speed, though. By the time I noticed a missing boot, the C/V would be trashed.

I've got GBR driveshafts on my DII. They're driveshafts, they're tougher than factory, and can be greased. Those aren't rocket science, and can usually be built locally for similar prices if you want. I'm not sure about their gears, but that's just because I haven't used them. They've been around a long while, and their web presence is thoroughly behind the times.

That's part of the image problem. They aren't the only ones with a crap website, though. I don't think Trek Outfitters has changed their site in 19 years, if they're even still making stuff. People need to realize a nice, modern website is very important nowadays.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[roverover]

You guys need to spend more time wheeling and less time on trivial details. Most of the concerns you have are going to change with conditions anyway. The 1.4 t case is going to mess with your gearing off road so you have to decide what is more important on or off road and gear it to that.. We run 4.12s, 4.37s and 4.75s all run well on the road all work well off road we run a range of tires between 35-38" If you are running on mountain roads you may want 4.75s with 35s if you are mainly running flat roads than 4.12s may be best I believe 4.37s are theoretically the strongest but whatever you choose will be fine in different conditions.

We had D2s running 35" Mud Grapplers a huge tire on stock axles for a long time before he finally broke one, if you are not running Reds on bigger than 34" tires you probably don't need HD axles assuming that you are a decent driver. I found probably 80% of breakage is driver error then maintenance then insufficient parts

Ashcroft CVs are made, designed and built in the US by RCV who make almost all the aftermarket CVs for everybody as I said before the lockers are great just poor customer service.

 

[Jeff Blake]

You guys need to spend more time wheeling and less time on trivial details. Most of the concerns you have are going to change with conditions anyway. The 1.4 t case is going to mess with your gearing off road so you have to decide what is more important on or off road and gear it to that.. We run 4.12s, 4.37s and 4.75s all run well on the road all work well off road we run a range of tires between 35-38" If you are running on mountain roads you may want 4.75s with 35s if you are mainly running flat roads than 4.12s may be best I believe 4.37s are theoretically the strongest but whatever you choose will be fine in different conditions.

We had D2s running 35" Mud Grapplers a huge tire on stock axles for a long time before he finally broke one, if you are not running Reds on bigger than 34" tires you probably don't need HD axles assuming that you are a decent driver. I found probably 80% of breakage is driver error then maintenance then insufficient parts

Ashcroft CVs are made, designed and built in the US by RCV who make almost all the aftermarket CVs for everybody as I said before the lockers are great just poor customer service.

Choosing what gear to run when doing lockers, axles, and tires isn't a trivial detail. I do a lot of mountains. Climbing up to shaver lake from Fresno, or san bernardino to Big bear I'm tooting along at 40-45mph on 32's

3.75 would match stock rpm, but make my already bad low range worse
4.12's would mimic my current rpm range in high and low (2700 @ 70), but my current setup is a DOG uphill.
4.37 would be 2900 rpm @ 70, but if I put a 1.2 hi-gear back in, unlikely, it would be perfect stock RPM.

roverover, you are suggesting that going lower gears gives you better performance up hills. But is that really true? Doesn't that mess with shift points?

Which gearset would be better for maintaining 3rd gear above 50mph? Dropping into 2nd, like I do now, is sort of useless as I get only the tiniest amount of speed from it.

random idea, is there any way to mess with the transmission shift points? What about Ashcroft's Compushift? https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/compushift.html

 

[K-rover]

I dont have the 1.4 case, but I have 4.12s with 35's and Its just fine going 70mph down the highway at 2600 rpm. Even going up hills. Granted hills around here are nothing like west coast mountians, but it still does just fine. Before I put the gears in I was running 34's and it sucked going up any incline.

 

[jymmiejamz]

roverover, you are suggesting that going lower gears gives you better performance up hills. But is that really true? Doesn't that mess with shift points?

Which gearset would be better for maintaining 3rd gear above 50mph? Dropping into 2nd, like I do now, is sort of useless as I get only the tiniest amount of speed from it.

In my D90 I have 4:10 gears, a 4.6 V8, and 8.25 XZLs. I have no problem in the mountains maintaining speed. I'm more limited by the engine running hot if I really push it in very hot weather likely due to the excessively high compression my motor is.

My wife's D1 has stock gears, stock 4.0 V8, and 7.50 XZLs. It gets passed by trucks on the highway. I'm probably going to put a 4.6 in it this summer. I wouldn't mind a 1.4 transfer box for it, but I think a 4.6 will take care of the lack of power on the highway.

 

[Jeff Blake]

In my D90 I have 4:10 gears, a 4.6 V8, and 8.25 XZLs. I have no problem in the mountains maintaining speed. I'm more limited by the engine running hot if I really push it in very hot weather likely due to the excessively high compression my motor is.

My wife's D1 has stock gears, stock 4.0 V8, and 7.50 XZLs. It gets passed by trucks on the highway. I'm probably going to put a 4.6 in it this summer. I wouldn't mind a 1.4 transfer box for it, but I think a 4.6 will take care of the lack of power on the highway.

Now there's a fun idea... converting my 4.0L to a 4.6L! Just pistons, con rods, crank, and an ECU...

Alright I'm going to go with 4.12's

Check this, Ashcroft has 1.003 and 1.1 LT230 gears: https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/lt230-ratio-changes.html

With 4.75's, 1.1 high gear, and 36" tires, RPM would be near-perfect stock. That would be the ideal offroad and onroad setup I'm thinking

 

[jymmiejamz]

Now there's a fun idea... converting my 4.0L to a 4.6L! Just pistons, con rods, crank, and an ECU...

It is pretty cheap to do if you already have a good block. There are plenty of D2 4.6s out there with cracked blocks (also incorrectly diagnosed as 'slipped liners'). Get a good rotating assembly and install it in your block. If you want even more power, use the pistons out of your 4.0 with the 4.6 crank and rods.

 

[Jeff Blake]

It is pretty cheap to do if you already have a good block. There are plenty of D2 4.6s out there with cracked blocks (also incorrectly diagnosed as 'slipped liners'). Get a good rotating assembly and install it in your block. If you want even more power, use the pistons out of your 4.0 with the 4.6 crank and rods.

Oh, I didn't know the 4.0 pistons were compatible with the 4.6 setup. Yeah I have a good block, I top-hatted and rebuilt it about 2 years ago, $450 valve job, the works. Runs really good.. just not enough power and burning maybe a quart/600 miles for unknown reasons. Maybe Gasflowed Turner heads would help, but I'm dubious.

Dammit, no, I'm definitely not tearing down the engine again anytime soon, as much as I'd like to..

 

[fishEH]

GBR 4.75's W/ ARB lockers - Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum

Retired - Private For Sale/Trade Classifieds - GBR 4.75's W/ ARB lockers - Thinking about selling my complete locked diffs. GBR 4.75's, ARB lockers. Also a compressor (not ARB) and air tank with all the necessary wiring, switches etc.. I bought the Rover these were in to fix but decided to go...

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