LR & Jag to reduce platforms to 2

[garrett]

You can come up with all the excuses you want for why "this and that" fail.

The point is that I don't have to make these corrections in the Toyota's. Pinion angles and cleaning radiators? LOL. Yeh let me get on that.

I've put Land Rovers up to FJ80s and they don't compare. That's really it. Talk to anyone that has lots of experience with both platforms and they'll say the same thing. Bill Burke, Bruce Elfstrom, etc.

You can call "bullshit" and claim that actually means something, but it doesn't. I'm a driving instructor with years of experience with both brands. You're a funeral director that has "buddies" with Toyota's. That doesn't quite match up now does it.

I'd love to say Land Rover is the better brand. I've been driving them for over 11 years now and love them, but I am just being honest.

 

[stu454]

Why does Bill Burke drive a 90?

 

[garrett]

Why does Bill Burke drive a 90?

He trailers it. Ask him what is a more reliable platform and see what he says. I have, but I'll give you one guess.

D90s are fun. Just because Bill has one doesn't mean it's the "best".

 

[D Chapman]

Come on, Garrett. How many radiator have you replaced? How many head jobs?

 

[garrett]

Come on, Garrett. How many radiator have you replaced? How many head jobs?

Three radiators (two in DIs, one in the 110)
At LEAST a dozen u joints
One motor (liner)
One transmission
At LEAST a dozen motor mounts
Two water pumps
One power steering pump
One steering box
Two axles
One rear differential
PS lines
Head gasket (white DI - to be done)

This is just in the four DIs I had (with the exception of the 110 radiator). I am sure I am missing a BUNCH of stuff, but this is just off the top of my head.

PS: These are from vehicles with relatively average to low miles. 95-120K. Two of them that were rarely used for several years.

 

[D Chapman]

Three radiators (two in DIs, one in the 110)

You got "into" Rovers in what, ~2000? So in 10-years you've replaced 3 radiators in the what, 8 or 9 Rovers you've owned? This sounds like a huge issue to be concerned with.

But if it makes you feel any better, I help put a radiator in a 1994 Toyota pick-up about 2-weeks ago. Single cab 4wd, ~90k miles. The cap separated from the core.

Moral of the story is, this problem is not limited to Land Rovers.

At LEAST a dozen u joints

Like I said, you're the one who lifted the trucks and never corrected the pinion angles. It has nothing to do with the truck and everything to do with the person who set-up the trucks.

The reason this does not happen with your leaf-sprung Toyotas is because the maker of your leaf springs already did this for you. And if it's not happening on your FJ80's, it probably because the person who set-up the trucks was not the same person who set-up your Rovers.

Come on, Garrett. It's a U-joint. It's not rocket science. The "truck" is not going to destroy u-joints because it's a "land rover". You're going through u-joints because of something you did.....or did not do correctly.

One motor (liner)

Shit happens. You're going to spin a bearing in a Toyota, if you have not already, too. Either that of or a valve spring is going to break and destroy the valve-train. Pretty common in the 3.0L.

At LEAST a dozen motor mounts

Like I said; you replace the worn-out items with shit, you get shit performance.

For the record, Toyota used these same type mounts, too, and Toyota got the same results with them pulling apart.

One transmission

Two water pumps

One power steering pump

One steering box

Two axles

One rear differential

PS lines

Head gasket (white DI - to be done)

This is just in the four DIs I had (with the exception of the 110 radiator). I am sure I am missing a BUNCH of stuff, but this is just off the top of my head.

PS: These are from vehicles with relatively average to low miles. 95-120K. Two of them that were rarely used for several years.

...and you know you can't honestly say this stuff does not fail on a Toyota. It does. I'm sure its even happens to your bosses vehicles.

Give me $5,500 and I'll build a D1 with HD axles, TT's, 2" lift, f/r links, DC front drive-shaft, and some 235/85's and I'll do any and everything you can do in your Toyota's. It will not even leak oil. Hell, the firewall will not even spit in half, LOL.

 

[D Chapman]

How many dozen does it take to buy these? http://lucky8llc.com/Products.asp?ProductID=2115

 

[pdxrovermech]

I find this news encouraging for my job security cause there will now just be more and more rover nuts trying to keep their rigs going due to a lack of alternatives.

 

[knewsom]

How many dozen does it take to buy these? http://lucky8llc.com/Products.asp?ProductID=2115

Ya know... I think I'll pick a pair of those up.

Dan, is there a way to check my pinion angles to see if the PO corrected it when he lifted the truck?

 

[kennith]

How many dozen does it take to buy these? http://lucky8llc.com/Products.asp?ProductID=2115

I'm sure I don't know, but I love my QT mounts. I've been meaning to get under there to see if I can do something like that for the transmission as well.

Installing those not only gives added durability and peace of mind, it also makes the vehicle much more fun. Everything just feels... well... more fun.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[p m]

Ya know... I think I'll pick a pair of those up.

Dan, is there a way to check my pinion angles to see if the PO corrected it when he lifted the truck?

Piece of cake, just buy yourself a magnetic-base angle finder.
Now, barring an unbelivably-smart PO (who could've used re-drilled swivel balls and aftermarket A-arm ball joint relocation part in your D1), if is piece of cake to determine if the pinion angles are correct.
If the trailing arms are stock, the pinion angles are incorrect.

 

[garrett]

...and you know you can't honestly say this stuff does not fail on a Toyota. It does. I'm sure its even happens to your bosses vehicles.

Give me $5,500 and I'll build a D1 with HD axles, TT's, 2" lift, f/r links, DC front drive-shaft, and some 235/85's and I'll do any and everything you can do in your Toyota's. It will not even leak oil. Hell, the firewall will not even spit in half, LOL.

Sure anything can fail on any vehicle, but the likelyhood on a Toyota is far, far less. That really cannot be questioned from our standpoint. From working with both brands for many years there just isn't any comparison in that regard. Throwing out the "bullshit" card has little merit.

It's not about making the most capable vehicle. We keep many of the trucks relatively stock with moderate lifts, upgraded tires and winches. Similar to how the groups we train set up their own vehicles. We're teaching them how to operate their vehicles off road with consistancy with vehicle preservation being paramount.

The only reason we'll continue to use Land Rovers is because we'll be working with relief agencies/NGOs and the likelihood they will come across them. None of the military groups that we train use Land Rover any longer. Maybe as "staff" vehicles on base.

Upgrade all you want in an attempt to build a better Land Rover. It will still fail more often than a Toyota product.

Land Rover has produced lots of great vehicles, but if you want something far more reliable and predictable get a Toyota. With that said I'll likely have a Land Rover in my driveway for a long time to come.

PS: Let me contact the guys in CT and make sure they check the pinion angles on the FJ80 with 35s. It's been running those tires on a 2-3" lift for 8 years on a stock drivetrain. haha Nothing has broken on that truck since I've been at OEX.

 

[MC22958]

I think it is about image more than anything. How many Toy's do you find on the trail compared to other manufactures. I can only speak of Virginia but at "all vehicle" trail rides the Jeeps out number every other manufacture. It might be a cost thing or a image and parts availability thing. Toyota might be a great manufacture but the clear truth is they made poor management decisions and are finding themselves with a tarnished image. The simple fact is a bunch of people who would have purchased a Toyota has not. They have moved on to another manufacture. What is the average car buying cycle? Toyota will suffer from this for at least five years. People remember failure much longer than......

 

[D Chapman]

PS: Let me contact the guys in CT and make sure they check the pinion angles on the FJ80 with 35s. It's been running those tires on a 2-3" lift for 8 years on a stock drivetrain. haha Nothing has broken on that truck since I've been at OEX.

Haha, yeah, right. No u-joints in 8-years with a truck on 35's....

Yeah, I call bull-fucking-shit.

 

[garrett]

Haha, yeah, right. No u-joints in 8-years with a truck on 35's....

Yeah, I call bull-fucking-shit.

I never said that. I KNOW none have failed since I have been at OEX. That's been a few years. I could send and email up there to check if you'd like.

But you'd know though. I mean with all your Toyota experience. Well maybe with one of these Toyotas. http://i34.tinypic.com/10pa811.jpg

EDIT: Daniel. Might I suggest you stick to what you know, not what you think you know.

 

[D Chapman]

I don't care if Jesus floated down here on the back of an Angel and told me he secretly gave you some magical u-joints from Fantastica that defy the laws of physics and would never wear out. I would still call bull-fucking-shit.

 

[garrett]

What if Jesus was wearing a Filson coat and wearing an Omega watch. Would that make a difference?

I am sure they wear out Daniel. You're missing the point...........again.

 

[MarkP]

I think most people see through the manufactured outrage Toyota headlines and understand our government was trying to magnify the issue for the purpose of increasing Government Motors sales. How did they do?

Toyota sales increase despite recalls

GM sales less than expected

As for what manufacturer is "on-the-trail"? I see many Jeeps, International Scouts, old Broncos, and Toyotas. Recently a few mod'ed Nissan Titan's. Two of the most capable trucks I have encountered were a heavily modified CJ and FJ45. I don't see that many Land Rovers. World-wide Toyota has pretty much replaced Land Rover as the vehicle 'first seen'. Didn't LR recently consider getting out of the military vehicle market?

In any case Land Rover is continuing to move towards high end luxury vehicles while Toyota has a broader more utility product line. It feels like Tata Motors will be the 'utility' vehicle product line of TataJLR. If so we should be judging the capabilities of TATA's defense product line as a platform for the next generation Defender.

 

[D Chapman]

No,. you're missing the point, Garrett. You set-up your Rovers the wrong way. You installed a 2" lift and retained the stock rear links. Front's, too. This is not correct. I don't care what web site you read, this is not correct. There is no way possible you can run this set-up and have everything in order.

But since you set your trucks up incorrectly and now suffer the consequences, all the sudden "Land Rovers eat u-joints and Toyota's do not".

It's laughable.

 

[garrett]

No,. you're missing the point, Garrett. You set-up your Rovers the wrong way. You installed a 2" lift and retained the stock rear links. Front's, too. This is not correct. I don't care what web site you read, this is not correct. There is no way possible you can run this set-up and have everything in order.

But since you set your trucks up incorrectly and now suffer the consequences, all the sudden "Land Rovers eat u-joints and Toyota's do not".

It's laughable.

You are proving my point.

With the Yota's we just slap on some tires and a little lift and don't have to worry so much. Pinion angles, cleaning radiators, upgrading axles and diffs......that is Rover speak.

When driving the Toyota's I don't get that paranoid feeling, "Oh shit what was that sound."

It's all part of my care free lifestyle that I live here in Middleburg. I think I will take a little drive to Cuppa Giddy Up for a mocha (whole milke and whipped cream thank you) and maybe to the barn. I dunno. I haven't decided yet.

Take another hit of embalming fluid dude.