My Bosch +4 Experience--Awful!!!
- Thread starter mnwolftrack
- Start date
p m said:Magnecor plug wires are junk, too
If this is indeed true, then I'm just ordering the OEM tune-up kit from Rovers North. OEM plugs and wires. They have given me no problems to this point in my Disco, so why change.
I think he was kidding about the magnecor wires being junk....
I have yet to see any real complaints about them from the rover group. In general for any make vehicle they've had a good reputation.
I've used NGK in my Toyota fleet, and NGK has always worked very well (though that's what's factory for them too!).
For what it's worth, I got bold last night and ran 1/2 bottle of seafoam through the intake again. Guess what??? Lots of smoke but no problems!!!! None! Yes, the check engine light came on because I almost killed the motor by letting the hose slip a bit out of my hand into the seafoam bottle, but other than that, no issues. I let it sit just under 15 minutes, turned it back on and revved it at 2500RPM until she started to smoke (A LOT AGAIN), and then took it for a test drive an drove it like I stole it, revving as high as 4500RPM. The tach goes to 6k, but I didn't want to push it. When I got home, I cleared the SES light, and amazingly after 18 miles of driving the light hasn't come back on. That's a first during my brief ownership of this D2.
I certainly didn't have any guys telling me to stay away from Bosch plugs when I bought them at Checker. All I got was a crabbie guy arguing with me that the leakdown testing tool I was trying to build was nothing but a compression tester (wrong!).
So, I'm going to cross my fingers for now and hope the seafoam is going to fix this problem. I haven't checked compression again after last night, but I'm wondering if it went up a little again on #6. It started out at 120, but it's gone up slightly after each seafoam cleaning (this is the 3rd time now).
Loving the seafoam and stock non-fouling champion plugs!
I have yet to see any real complaints about them from the rover group. In general for any make vehicle they've had a good reputation.
I've used NGK in my Toyota fleet, and NGK has always worked very well (though that's what's factory for them too!).
For what it's worth, I got bold last night and ran 1/2 bottle of seafoam through the intake again. Guess what??? Lots of smoke but no problems!!!! None! Yes, the check engine light came on because I almost killed the motor by letting the hose slip a bit out of my hand into the seafoam bottle, but other than that, no issues. I let it sit just under 15 minutes, turned it back on and revved it at 2500RPM until she started to smoke (A LOT AGAIN), and then took it for a test drive an drove it like I stole it, revving as high as 4500RPM. The tach goes to 6k, but I didn't want to push it. When I got home, I cleared the SES light, and amazingly after 18 miles of driving the light hasn't come back on. That's a first during my brief ownership of this D2.
I certainly didn't have any guys telling me to stay away from Bosch plugs when I bought them at Checker. All I got was a crabbie guy arguing with me that the leakdown testing tool I was trying to build was nothing but a compression tester (wrong!).
So, I'm going to cross my fingers for now and hope the seafoam is going to fix this problem. I haven't checked compression again after last night, but I'm wondering if it went up a little again on #6. It started out at 120, but it's gone up slightly after each seafoam cleaning (this is the 3rd time now).
Loving the seafoam and stock non-fouling champion plugs!
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roverX said:
Yes, I used to get a constant 18mpg on the highway, I had gotten 18.5 3yrs ago on a trip to Wisconson. The best I can get now is 17mpg.
This will really get you...... I got ONE TIME ONLY! 22mpg comming from Pegosa Springs Co. to Amarillo Texas. WOW!!!!!! I set the cruise at 65mph. (I am sure because I was going DOWN HILL!)
mnwolftrack said:
yes - but, personally, I would not buy magnecor wires just because their website is full of, say it the nicest way, misstatements. Even if their product was really good, I don't like to support false advertisement practices. MSD wires never failed me, but I keep OEM wires on the Disco.
The longest Bosch 4+ Platinum plugs stayed in my vehicle was about 2 days. Never again.
p m said:
Quite true indeed. But luckily I didn't buy the wires because of their website. I bought them because of feedback here and my experience outside of Rovers. My eyes start to roll back into my head when I read catalogs/websites slamming their competitors (Toyota specialist North West Off Road aka No Warranty Or Returns is known for this in their own catalog).
I beat you on the Bosch's though. Mine were in for 4 days
. Mine lasted TWICE as long! I got 100 miles out of mine, how about you?DII - cyl #6
mnwolftrack-
Odd coincidence that I have been getting random multi misfires and misfire in cyl #6 as well. Mines a '00 DII, but what is up with the same cylinder? I currently have bosch plugs in. Think I switch back to the stock plugs and see what happens.
mnwolftrack-
Odd coincidence that I have been getting random multi misfires and misfire in cyl #6 as well. Mines a '00 DII, but what is up with the same cylinder? I currently have bosch plugs in. Think I switch back to the stock plugs and see what happens.
JacIntyre-
I tend to think my misfire on 6 is due to the lower compression, but I'm not an expert on these engines. Yes, its 140PSI and that is "good" but the others are 190.
I've put enough miles on the D2 now after seafoam to be sure I will only be getting P0306. The other two codes I got before seafoam or swapping wires/plugs were PO305 and PO300 are gone.
I bought a fuel pressure tester, but I must have bought the wrong kind becuase it won't screw on to the port. Not sure if fuel is even the problem. The engine starts up consistently nice and quick when hot or cold, but alas it seems to be before warm-up that the P0306 occurs.
One other possibility is that the crack in the passenger side manifold over cylinder 4 is causing a misfire on 6. I don't know the advanced details on these engines, but often cylinder s help each other through the exhaust. The pulse of one cylinder helps pull another cylinder's exhuast out. And, as I've noticed with the SES light (disregarding seafoam and Bosch causes), the light mainly comes on when the engine is cold and when the crack is wide open tick tick tick tick tick. Once the engine warms up, the manifold heats up and the crack all but disappears. It's possible that the pulse of #4 exhaust is not helping to pull the exhaust out of #6 as much as it should because much of #4 is going out the crack. Sooooooooooo, on that note I ordered a manifold from Jammer off this board, and we'll see what happens. Either way, I needed a new manifold.
Out of curiosity, does yours have a cracked manifold, and if so where?
I tend to think my misfire on 6 is due to the lower compression, but I'm not an expert on these engines. Yes, its 140PSI and that is "good" but the others are 190.
I've put enough miles on the D2 now after seafoam to be sure I will only be getting P0306. The other two codes I got before seafoam or swapping wires/plugs were PO305 and PO300 are gone.
I bought a fuel pressure tester, but I must have bought the wrong kind becuase it won't screw on to the port. Not sure if fuel is even the problem. The engine starts up consistently nice and quick when hot or cold, but alas it seems to be before warm-up that the P0306 occurs.
One other possibility is that the crack in the passenger side manifold over cylinder 4 is causing a misfire on 6. I don't know the advanced details on these engines, but often cylinder s help each other through the exhaust. The pulse of one cylinder helps pull another cylinder's exhuast out. And, as I've noticed with the SES light (disregarding seafoam and Bosch causes), the light mainly comes on when the engine is cold and when the crack is wide open tick tick tick tick tick. Once the engine warms up, the manifold heats up and the crack all but disappears. It's possible that the pulse of #4 exhaust is not helping to pull the exhaust out of #6 as much as it should because much of #4 is going out the crack. Sooooooooooo, on that note I ordered a manifold from Jammer off this board, and we'll see what happens. Either way, I needed a new manifold.
Out of curiosity, does yours have a cracked manifold, and if so where?
One time I replaced a leaking injector.
I cleared the codes and drove it for a drive cycle C to confirm repair. Kept getting a misfire on the cylinder I put the injector in.
Did a compression check and kept getting a slightly lower reading, the other 7 turned out ok. After talking to the other guys there, we all decided that the rings were washed with gas, and that the compression would come back. I took it for another drive and the ses light wasn't coming on. I figured it was taking care of it'self.
A few weeks went by. A flatbed came pulling up with the same truck. Turns out the ROD BROKE on that cylinder. A autopsy showed that the injector was leaking so much what the engine hydrolocked momentarily and bent the rod.
As the engine kept running, the bend int he rod got worse and finally broke. The bottom half broke the block almost in half. It was incredible!
Your story reminded of that happening. Never saw it before or since.
Looked pretty cool. It was still under warran-free. It set something like 20 codes in the computer.
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I cleared the codes and drove it for a drive cycle C to confirm repair. Kept getting a misfire on the cylinder I put the injector in.
Did a compression check and kept getting a slightly lower reading, the other 7 turned out ok. After talking to the other guys there, we all decided that the rings were washed with gas, and that the compression would come back. I took it for another drive and the ses light wasn't coming on. I figured it was taking care of it'self.
A few weeks went by. A flatbed came pulling up with the same truck. Turns out the ROD BROKE on that cylinder. A autopsy showed that the injector was leaking so much what the engine hydrolocked momentarily and bent the rod.
As the engine kept running, the bend int he rod got worse and finally broke. The bottom half broke the block almost in half. It was incredible!
Your story reminded of that happening. Never saw it before or since.
Looked pretty cool. It was still under warran-free. It set something like 20 codes in the computer.
:
S
ShaunP
Guest
mnwolftrack said:
I reckon low comp is a leaking valve given that you put oil down and it didn't come up. As for the cracked manifold, this can make them give codes and it may be kind of why it fouled the crap Bosch plugs. What can happen is the O2 sees a lean mixture on that bank because even though the exhaust is under pressure most of the time sometimes it's not and the action of the gases rushing out the pipe draws air into the crack and confuses the o2 so the ECU will go rich by what the o2 says, maybe foul a plug but it is also being told by the mafs that it's not using enough air to be that lean etc etc. If indeed it seals up when hot problem solved. Air in the exhaust is how air injection used to work to reduce emissions.
I'd get a new manifold or fit some headers.
Ok, I finaly got to pull my bosch 4+ plugs. (after 10,000 miles)They look ok, the electrode is still visible, no signs of burn off or receding. The only thing that seemed weird to me, was one side of the porcelin was black, the other was still white. I am wondering if one side was facing the valves(black side) and the other side was facing the piston(white side) Anyone want to comment on my findings!
the Platinum plugs' electrodes won't burn - the plugs foul easily because of the tiny size of the center electrode.
mnwolftrack - I made it to work and back twice (at that time, I lived 3 miles away from work). The truck started to miss so badly that I had to pull plugs before going home on the second day! The jeep was burning oil, but it seemed that just running the engine rich during the takeoff was enough to flood these plugs. Ever since, Champion Truck 4405s were the plugs of choice for me.
mnwolftrack - I made it to work and back twice (at that time, I lived 3 miles away from work). The truck started to miss so badly that I had to pull plugs before going home on the second day! The jeep was burning oil, but it seemed that just running the engine rich during the takeoff was enough to flood these plugs. Ever since, Champion Truck 4405s were the plugs of choice for me.
J
jbrown1601
Guest
why would they not get Bosch
Let's think about this for a moment.
You're an engineer sitting in Solihul and you've changed the whole engine management subsystem and probably the ABS and Gearbox controller over to Bosch electronics, this has cost the company a foturne. Now in the signoff meetings you then have to tell your manager why you stuck with a champion platinum spark plug that costs about $3-4 retail (7$ with LR markup), that means OEM bulk price it is almost free.
I like the plug or I couldn't be bothered isn't going to fly at this point and or the fact you have to manager a sperate part number isn't going to fly at this point. They added a new Champion part number any way to the logistics impact of this decision was just expensive as putting in the bosch part. I'm pretty sure they could've got the plugs from Bosch effectively for free by negotiating it into the OEM engine package. This way they could oreder 1 partnumber from Bosch and be done with it.
I once read what I think may be good advice
Put German plugs in German Engines, Japanes in Japanes and American in American (LR engine is basically American)
Let's think about this for a moment.
You're an engineer sitting in Solihul and you've changed the whole engine management subsystem and probably the ABS and Gearbox controller over to Bosch electronics, this has cost the company a foturne. Now in the signoff meetings you then have to tell your manager why you stuck with a champion platinum spark plug that costs about $3-4 retail (7$ with LR markup), that means OEM bulk price it is almost free.
I like the plug or I couldn't be bothered isn't going to fly at this point and or the fact you have to manager a sperate part number isn't going to fly at this point. They added a new Champion part number any way to the logistics impact of this decision was just expensive as putting in the bosch part. I'm pretty sure they could've got the plugs from Bosch effectively for free by negotiating it into the OEM engine package. This way they could oreder 1 partnumber from Bosch and be done with it.
I once read what I think may be good advice
Put German plugs in German Engines, Japanes in Japanes and American in American (LR engine is basically American)
Just wanted to add my experience too. A couple thousand miles ago I had multiple misfires and changeg plugs and wires. Magnecore 8.5 and Bosch platinum +4. Ran great at first. Since I drive so little months went by and I forgot about the plugs and started hearing a miss and noticed a drop to 8 mpg, swapped O2's and cleared codes. Anyhow, I bought 2 range colder champion plugs because I was getting detonation unless I used super plus octane booster in the summer.
Finally last night I got around to changing them Holy crppp I think 2 out of eight plugs had a tiny nub of an electrode visible, the rest were burnt into the insulator. I also had the charred on one side and white on the other as you mentioned. I guess it is a testament to the strength of the ignition system that my car ran at all, was crazy rich at idle however, hopefully I get some gas mileage back, figures now that the prices are declining.
I am running a supercharger but I would never recommend these in the Landrover. Save your money and a boatload of aggravation, and get some regular plugs.
Finally last night I got around to changing them
Holy crppp I think 2 out of eight plugs had a tiny nub of an electrode visible, the rest were burnt into the insulator. I also had the charred on one side and white on the other as you mentioned. I guess it is a testament to the strength of the ignition system that my car ran at all, was crazy rich at idle however, hopefully I get some gas mileage back, figures now that the prices are declining.I am running a supercharger but I would never recommend these in the Landrover. Save your money and a boatload of aggravation, and get some regular plugs.
Rover Connection sells these champion - RN11YCC (double copper)
Anyone have experience with these ? I bought them for my DII but haven't installed them yet. Just wondering.
Anyone have experience with these ? I bought them for my DII but haven't installed them yet. Just wondering.
Thats the OE plug in Series one. If I remember right, the Series 2 plug wire is a smaller connection at the plug head.