Navigation System using VSS

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,219
470
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
If you drive the rockies you will find the GPS will frequently be off a thousand feet or more in the mountains

this also happened to us when crossing the Andes in Argentina where the road passes are slightly higher than most in the Rockies.

the Garmin 276C was off according to the maps we had by about 1,000 feet as well.

interesting though, when in lower elevations like the White Mts in NH, it was off by only about 15 feet according to the markers.


Jaime
 
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D

D Chapman

Guest
nosivad_bor said:
every time i drive across the country these errors become very evident. I driven across the country from PA to AZ about ten times in the past three years. I never count on the GPS for distance it's always wrong.

Yes the unit knows you are going up in altitude but not accurately because it is just a byproduct of the algorithm used to figure out your coordinates. It is designed primarily in civilian models to know you X and Y coordinates, and Z is mainly considered as a side benefit. WAAS and other land based beacons give the GPS a reference point which help it to keep it accurate but it is not as good at altitude as you might think.

A good aviation GPS will have a barometric sensor built in to supplement the GPS calculations.

If you drive the rockies you will find the GPS will frequently be off a thousand feet or more in the mountains.

How is the mileage off? According to Randy McNalley? Your speed-o? Google maps?

Are you sure the GPS is not correct and your speed-o is off due to a different tire?

I really do not understand how a VSS can actually be any more accurate. The VSS is only going to tell you how fast your finial drive gear is turning. It has no idea how fast you're actually going. It's biased on stock tires and gearing. You toss in some 4.11:1 and a 265/75 and your speed-o, and VSS, is basically useless. Sure, it will give you some idea as to how fast you're going, but it's not dead-nuts on.Take the 4mph different and times that by a 2000 mile drive from PA to AZ and who knows what you end up with....

I know for a fact that the garmin is about dead on. I can measure this by the mile markers on the Interstate.

The estimated time of arrival is just that, an estimate. But it's pretty accurate, actually.

I'm also still confused on how the VSS option is "better". I have yet to see a Nav unit say, "in 5-seconds, make a left". The ones I've seen give a distance.

I drive from VA to GA a few times a year. I know that from driveway to driveway, I'm looking at about a 7.5 hour ride, depending on traffic. If I type this destination into the Kenwood/Garmin, it reads 8 hours and 15 minutes. At 65mph, that's probably true. But as you drive, that estimated time of arrival will update. That's true on all units with this feature. So I don't see where the VSS is better in estimated time of arrival.

The GPS software knows the distance between point A and point B. That's how it knows to say, "in 15 miles, make a right onto XYZ Street". It does not need a VSS to do this. The GPS is also going to read how fast you're going and this is typically pretty fucking accurate, as we all know. So why would a VSS improve the actual distance traveled??? The software knows where you are and how far the turn is. The VSS has no clue as to how far up hill or down hill you travel. The only thing the VSS knows is how fast that gear is turning.
 

nosivad_bor

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
6,061
64
Pittsburgh, PA
the vss in theory is great for stock cars, rover its gonna not help because of gears and big tire changes, but people who design GPS's aren't concerned with that modified vehicle segment when i comes to accuracy. they design for the masses

My mileage calculations are based on mile markers along route 70. given the amount of free time I have when driving cross country I pay attention to the mile markers and GPS and compare them.

you ask am i sure of a lot of things. The one thing I am sure of is the mile markers vs the gps vs the speedo are all different. Generally speaking the speedo is fairly accurate according to those "how fast are you going signs" Altitude is okay until it gets steep or super hilly and then it starts to lag and get inaccurate based on the the altitude signs along the road.
 
D

D Chapman

Guest
So why wouold this VSS thing be worth anything? I totally understand how these GPS systems work, but I can't for the life of me understand what benifit the VSS has.

If the VSS measures distance, it's still not going to change your coordance. The satalites do that.

The VSS measures speed. But, so do the satalites.

The GPS software will calculate an estimated time of arrival and base that time off your VSS reading. But most all GPS units, including the cheap ones, will also do this with no VSS attached.

The only real benifit I can see to this set-up is if you enter a tunnel, lose satalite feed, drive in a stright line and do not make any turns, your map will still show you on the road and the speed in which you're traveling.

Other than that, it's a PITA and worthless.
 

nosivad_bor

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
6,061
64
Pittsburgh, PA
if you are in the city a lot of times satellite reception is week and the dead reckoning is helpful.

Dan, I don't understand how you can not understand that there is a market for this features. Just because you do not find value in this does not mean it is worthless to the general public at large.
 
D

D Chapman

Guest
if you are in the city a lot of times satellite reception is week and the dead reckoning is helpful.

If you make a turn, or ever take a curve in the road, it will fuck everything up. If your GPS has lost signal, it does not matter how fast you're going. If the VSS works, so does you speedo (most of the time), so what benifit is the GPS telling you how fast you're going is it does not show you where you are?

Dan, I don't understand how you can not understand that there is a market for this features. Just because you do not find value in this does not mean it is worthless to the general public at large.

I don't understand the VSS end of it. What could the market possibality be? The only thing I can think of is a taxi driver wanting an extra $1.00 for his mileage. But wouldn't his Odo do that same thing?

Your GPS software shows the distance from point A to point B. It may not be dead-nuts on, but it's pretty close.

Your GPS shows how fast you're going. Again, it may not be dead-buts on, but it's pretty close.

What else is there? Your VSS measures speed. That's it.

Your odo measures distance from a reading from your VSS. Your VSS is not, and can not, tell software the distance traveled. That's what GPS does. If the VSS told the software the actual distance traveled, then I could be sitting stuck, spinning, in a snow bank and the Nav screen would show me in the next County.
 

lcater

Well-known member
Mar 6, 2006
293
0
Canada
nosivad_bor said:
you ask am i sure of a lot of things. The one thing I am sure of is .

...that Don just wants to have a different opinion from anyone else he decides to challenge, regardless of the topic. I thought that was what pirate4x4 was for.

I'm going to crawl back into my hole now so that Don doesn't call me a shit head anymore. You know how those sticks and stones can hurt us!
 

lcater

Well-known member
Mar 6, 2006
293
0
Canada
D Chapman said:
Actually, it was probably a legitimate thread until you crammed a double din, POS, out dated, hunk of shit head unit into a Mud-UK console and mated it to a hunk of shit Clarion MAX675VD.

- actually the thread was going well until you piped in. Maybe you're the out dated, hunk of shit head!

Everything about your set-up sucks. You did not research on wtf you were installing. You probably found this deal on ebay because someone else was smart enough to see what a hunk of shit this system was compared to the others on the market. It's either that, or the head unit is recycled from another vehicle..... No one in their right mind would buy this system. No one in there right mind would attempt to install this into a Mud-UK console in their Defender.

- I guess I am crazy. Oh well. But I am busted. I did take it out of my other vehicle.

It's not that the Defender deserves a killer, state-of-the-art system, either. Because is doesn't. It's a Defender, not a Lexus. All the dancing lights, colored buttons, and wicked awesome totally cool graphics do not fit a Defender.

- you must have researched the wrong place. Mine has no fancy lights or coloured buttons. It's basically a 7" inch screen with some tiny buttons around the perimeter.

If this was truly a thought out system, you would have junked that Clarion NAX970HD POS. You would have understood that it does not fit a Mud-UK console. You would have simpley installed a screen with a system that has an iPod interface that actually works.

- well now here's some good info. Others now on the board will know that if you plan on installing a DD unit, then you need to make modifications. And the Clarion actually has the best ipod interface on the market - in my opinion - but we know what you and that brain of yours that sits on top of your red neck thinks.

Thanks again Don.
 

MUSKYMAN

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
8,277
0
OverBarrington IL
D Chapman said:
Your odo measures distance from a reading from your VSS. Your VSS is not, and can not, tell software the distance traveled. That's what GPS does. If the VSS told the software the actual distance traveled, then I could be sitting stuck, spinning, in a snow bank and the Nav screen would show me in the next County.

well havent read the thread complete yet but this isnt really tottaly true.

the best GPS units have secondary reckoning system to compensate for times the GPS signal gets bad.

rally computers for example

I dont know for sure but I believe that some OEM navigation systems do as well?...the reason I say this is I have watched the read-out on my brother in laws nav system continue to show a speed readout when it is also telling you it has lost the GPS signal. Then when the GPS signal returns it will update the system as far as the map goes and even switch roads on the map if you have taken turn.

in the wisconsin northwoods the tree cover often blocks out the GPS signal.
 

Leslie

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
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0
52
Kingsport TN
Not only in downtown cities w/ skyscrapers, but also in under heavy forest canopy, a GPS unit can lose you for a bit. Better units have the ability to assume that you're on the road that you've been tracking along for awhile, and can take the VSS feed to continue your distance traveled while not having a GPS fix. Once you come back to where you can get a GPS position fix again, it will adjust your displayed location... but should be much closer than if it had just stopped tracking you when you originally lost signal.

The place I've noticed this to be most helpful is around tunnels, when it'll have you right where you should be when you pop out on the other side, instead of showing you stopped at the other end. No, to me not such a big deal that I'd insist on a unit that had it, but, it's not a bad thing.
 
D

D Chapman

Guest
Well, the tunnel thing works with non-VSS unit. I know this from our trip last week to Baltimore, MD.

As for tree cover, I don't know. I live in the Shenandoah Valley. It may not be a South American jungle, but the trees are pretty thick and I've not experienced this problem.
 

Kavic

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2004
1,216
0
Ashburn, VA
Doug C said:
That makes sense for calculating arrival times. Sounds like a neat piece of equipment.

I like this one better since it's a single DIN. It packs a lot of features into a one DIN unit.

Says it won't fit in a D1 though. It has the VSS connection also.
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,219
470
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
It may not be a South American jungle


actually with an external antenna even in the Brasilian "jungle" we did not lose the signal totally.

the signal strength became weaker in some spots, yet, the external antenna really makes a difference vs just having the unit mounted close to the windshield.


Jaime
 

chrisvonc

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
1,187
0
Central Va.
www.discoweb.org
D Chapman said:
Well, the tunnel thing works with non-VSS unit. I know this from our trip last week to Baltimore, MD.

As for tree cover, I don't know. I live in the Shenandoah Valley. It may not be a South American jungle, but the trees are pretty thick and I've not experienced this problem.
The vss simply provides the GPS with a little more accurate distance/speed traveled when signal is lost. Your GPS like mine, when it loses signal for what ever reason, will continue to plot you using its last knows speed and direction for x amount of time before is knows its way off, for example a tunnel. When you entered the tunnel and it lost the signal, the gps assumes that you are still going basically straight and maintaining the same speed it last knew you were going. When you pop out the other side, it reconnects to the satellites and picks up the current info and corrects itself which providing you were still moving around the same speed when you went in, should be fairly close on the screen where the gps thought you should be. However, if you stop, slow down to a crawl through the tunnel or the tunnel changes direction, the gps wont know that until you pop out on the other side, in which case you will see that the GPS will have tracked you a lot further than it thought you should have been.
 

chrisvonc

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
1,187
0
Central Va.
www.discoweb.org
Blueboy said:
actually with an external antenna even in the Brasilian "jungle" we did not lose the signal totally.

the signal strength became weaker in some spots, yet, the external antenna really makes a difference vs just having the unit mounted close to the windshield.


Jaime
it also depends on geographic location. Down here in TX I lose signal much more than I did living on the East Coast. Also I lose it even more in the Freelander than in the D90 because of the heated windshield.