North Korea...
- Thread starter msggunny
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Eliot said:
So much for that....http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-korea-north-zone-idUSBRE93202P20130403
Timmy!!!!!!! said:
I sure hope you're right... but recall if you will that in the run-up to WWII nobody thought Hitler was going to do anything either.
Who's going to piss longer?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...docId=CNG.4eb43e27607cb9d4be6b952b88ddefeb.01
http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...docId=CNG.4eb43e27607cb9d4be6b952b88ddefeb.01
knewsom said:
Well, there is no way to prove that I wouldn't.... so........
But seriously, I'm not against a show of strength, and the exercises with our allies. These have been happening since the war, and they serve their purposes -- the specific purpose should be to NOT end up in a war.
I'm calling into question the specific ways in which I'm interpreting the photos and videos I'm seeing of these particular exercises. There is a particular vibe I'm getting like we are poking them with a stick, teasing them, instead of showing them we are a brick wall that cannot be penetrated, neither can it be called offensive.
I guess you could say I see the pattern of our show looking more and more like escalation; like jr. high kids on the playground. Instead, I would like to see a more professional approach -- if that makes sense.
A "professional" approach? What, like this?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tlcE3HVRlRs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
If you're referring to the fact that it seems we've escalated as well and in some ways thumbed our noses at them, that's all pretty standard posturing... Their purpose has not been to prevent a war, it's been to remind NK of what would invariably happen in case of a war, with the hopes that it would prevent one. ...what I'm suggesting is that their knowledge of certain defeat is not necessarily going to prevent a war, and I don't think the rhetoric and posturing really matters. KJU knows full well what the consequences of war would be, and perhaps that's precisely what he's after. If it's not, then this will all blow over, in spite of the stupidity displayed by everyone involved.
PS - the Nimitz Carrier Group just left port today here in SD, headed for an undisclosed "pacific deployment". IE - shit just got real.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tlcE3HVRlRs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
If you're referring to the fact that it seems we've escalated as well and in some ways thumbed our noses at them, that's all pretty standard posturing... Their purpose has not been to prevent a war, it's been to remind NK of what would invariably happen in case of a war, with the hopes that it would prevent one. ...what I'm suggesting is that their knowledge of certain defeat is not necessarily going to prevent a war, and I don't think the rhetoric and posturing really matters. KJU knows full well what the consequences of war would be, and perhaps that's precisely what he's after. If it's not, then this will all blow over, in spite of the stupidity displayed by everyone involved.
PS - the Nimitz Carrier Group just left port today here in SD, headed for an undisclosed "pacific deployment". IE - shit just got real.
From the Pacific Stars and Stripes.
http://ap.stripes.com/dynamic/stories/A/AS_KOREAS_TENSION_ASOL-?SITE=DCSAS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Personally, I think "Dumb fuck" is showing his ass. But, at the same time. How many times can you poke at someone/something, before someone/thing pokes back. if you know what i mean. If nothing happens this time around.... My feeling is, it will, in one way shape or form, within the next 5-10yrs. But that's me.
http://ap.stripes.com/dynamic/stories/A/AS_KOREAS_TENSION_ASOL-?SITE=DCSAS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Personally, I think "Dumb fuck" is showing his ass. But, at the same time. How many times can you poke at someone/something, before someone/thing pokes back. if you know what i mean. If nothing happens this time around.... My feeling is, it will, in one way shape or form, within the next 5-10yrs. But that's me.
I wonder how this happened... maybe we sunk them or maybe the N. Koreans are hiding out to sink a destroyer...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-03/two-north-korean-submarines-disappeared
I have a proposal. How about we have Steve Young and his ultra secret Seal Team take out his Uhn and then put me in power as the dictator of the country. I will then create a land where you can own a Defender with whatever engine you want and can own whatever guns you want.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-03/two-north-korean-submarines-disappeared
I have a proposal. How about we have Steve Young and his ultra secret Seal Team take out his Uhn and then put me in power as the dictator of the country. I will then create a land where you can own a Defender with whatever engine you want and can own whatever guns you want.
Steve Young is busy redesigning the DC 100 so the Defender will be back next year. With rocket launchers.
My students have been asking a lot of questions about this topic, seems to be the subject of considerable discussion with the parents. They all just want to NUKE North Korea.
atriot:
My students have been asking a lot of questions about this topic, seems to be the subject of considerable discussion with the parents. They all just want to NUKE North Korea.
atriot:
Communists stick together. Russia, China and Iran all need North Korea for strategic and power in numbers purposes. Great blog and quote to follow.
"THE FAILURE OF U.S. POLICYMAKERS TO COMPREHEND THE VEILED AGGRESSIVENESS AND HOSTILITY TOWARDS THE UNITED STATES INHERENT IN SINO-SOVIET STRATEGY AND THE BELIEF THAT THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC REFORMS IN RUSSIA AND THE PARTIAL INTRODUCTION OF CAPITALISM IN CHINA HAVE FORESHADOWED THESE COUNTRIES' DEVELOPMENT INTO REAL DEMOCRACIES, HAVE ERODED THE EFFECTIVENESS OF U.S. POLICIES IN THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENSE, INTELLIGENCE AND COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE FIELDS. U.S. POLICYMAKERS HAVE RECKLESSLY ACCEPTED THE PREMISE THAT RUSSIA AND CHINA ARE NO LONGER ENEMIES, BUT ARE RATHER POTENTIAL ALLIES AND PARTNERS FULLY DESERVING OF U.S. SUPPORT. ONLY COUNTRIES LIKE IRAN, (PRE-2003) IRAQ AND NORTH KOREA - WHICH (IRONICALLY, IN THIS CONTEXT) WORK SECRETLY WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA - ARE STILL CONSIDERED POTENTIAL ADVERSARIES."
- KGB DEFECTOR ANATOLIY GOLITSYN, THE PERESTROIKA DECEPTION, 1995, P.230
http://www.secondkoreanwar.com/
"THE FAILURE OF U.S. POLICYMAKERS TO COMPREHEND THE VEILED AGGRESSIVENESS AND HOSTILITY TOWARDS THE UNITED STATES INHERENT IN SINO-SOVIET STRATEGY AND THE BELIEF THAT THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC REFORMS IN RUSSIA AND THE PARTIAL INTRODUCTION OF CAPITALISM IN CHINA HAVE FORESHADOWED THESE COUNTRIES' DEVELOPMENT INTO REAL DEMOCRACIES, HAVE ERODED THE EFFECTIVENESS OF U.S. POLICIES IN THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENSE, INTELLIGENCE AND COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE FIELDS. U.S. POLICYMAKERS HAVE RECKLESSLY ACCEPTED THE PREMISE THAT RUSSIA AND CHINA ARE NO LONGER ENEMIES, BUT ARE RATHER POTENTIAL ALLIES AND PARTNERS FULLY DESERVING OF U.S. SUPPORT. ONLY COUNTRIES LIKE IRAN, (PRE-2003) IRAQ AND NORTH KOREA - WHICH (IRONICALLY, IN THIS CONTEXT) WORK SECRETLY WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA - ARE STILL CONSIDERED POTENTIAL ADVERSARIES."
- KGB DEFECTOR ANATOLIY GOLITSYN, THE PERESTROIKA DECEPTION, 1995, P.230
http://www.secondkoreanwar.com/
1920SF said:
Your sarcasm leaves a lot to be desired. This blog makes good talking points but on the same hand is purely opinion. The Korean war never officially ended for a reason, they hate each other, so yes, I would say it's imminent.
Edit: add,
Yes, the astrology section deserves all the the sarcasm you can throw at it.
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Ratcheting up the sarcasm won't make that blog anything more than nonsensical drivel; I wouldn't use it as talking points but to each their own.
Imminence is relative since the war has been not ended since the 50's; why now is it suddenly more imminent?
The only thing that concerns me is a cascading escalation and subsequent miscalculation on the part of the DPRK. On the other hand, if it's going to get sorted then it will at least sort quickly.
The comments earlier in the thread about China may not have the full context of their interests-while in 1950 they may have come streaming across the Yalu I think these days they are just as likely to be on the border to ensure that they don't have a flood of people who's state makes the reunification of the Warsaw Pact look easy and simple by comparison.
Imminence is relative since the war has been not ended since the 50's; why now is it suddenly more imminent?
The only thing that concerns me is a cascading escalation and subsequent miscalculation on the part of the DPRK. On the other hand, if it's going to get sorted then it will at least sort quickly.
The comments earlier in the thread about China may not have the full context of their interests-while in 1950 they may have come streaming across the Yalu I think these days they are just as likely to be on the border to ensure that they don't have a flood of people who's state makes the reunification of the Warsaw Pact look easy and simple by comparison.
1920SF said:
Drivel? Let me be precise so we're on the same page. Forget the videos in the blog, I didn't watch any of them. The Point I agree with is if another shelling type attack occurred South Korea would respond forcefully this time around. If that happens it could quickly turn into all out war again. 3 strikes, you're out.
1. ROKS Cheonan sinking
2. Bombardment of Yeonpyeong
3. ?
Is this blog talking point drivel? I personally think KJU might miscalculate the US and SK response to another pussy (hit and run) type attack, this scares the shit out of me.
brian4d said:
I don't think anyone here disagrees with the notion that a big nasty war is certainly a possibility, and pretty much just a stupid mistake away.
What scares me the most is the idea that NK knows this and is counting on it.
brian4d said:
You and I may well be in violent agreement about the end result, albeit from very different sourcing. I have a tough time moving past the video, the astrology, the anachronistic rants, and the like-even if the end result is the same in terms of the discreet analysis on the possibility of conflict. The source's credibility-or lack thereof-in that instance detracts from the analysis.
That being said the escalatory path and the factors you mention may not get you to all out war right off the bat. What is unclear is what would happen if the ROKs smacked the DPRK for something (which would be justly deserved). Can the DPRK off ramp before getting decisively engaged? Would they do something you can't come back from (significant ballistic missile strikes on Seoul, for example)? Can the PRC reign them in at some point?
That's unclear-but all factors to consider between where we are now and a repeat of 1950 (which wouldn't be a repeat in the sense that I don't see the ROK's getting pushed back to Pusan this time through).
In terms of sourcing for stuff like this, this is the kind of stuff I'd put stock in:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/03/tell_me_how_this_starts?page=0,1
knewsom said:
Thing is, I honestly can't remember anything other than the P-3 incident happening during the Bush Admin., in relation to N. Korea. So I really can't comment on it. I'm just observing what I'm seeing now, and giving my opinion on the feeling I'm getting from it.
And really, I can't quite wrap my head around the bad feeling I get when I see the B-2 doing a low fly by, in daylight. I don't know who ordered it, I don't know what the full purpose was, but I get a bad feeling about it; but I do know that the airshow quality of the demonstration is different than a legitimate military exercise as a show of force.