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Oil Quiz.
- Thread starter Chris-St Louis
- Start date
NO not Gear oil yet. My mind still hurts trying to figure out motor oil. I still dont know what to use?rover4x4 said:
rover4x4 said:
Depends on the application. For example, Rotella T works great in a Flat tappet engine like Land Rover, but would not do such a good job in my Element.
Actaully, dont know much about the differences.
No, Really.
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Lr3
Chris, here is a repeat question that I asked you on the LR3 forum regarding appropriate oil. You indicated that the oil must meet the Ford WSS-M2C929 spec. I have found that Castrol Syntec 5w30 meets that spec, but do you know of any other brands/weights?
Thanks
Chris
Chris, here is a repeat question that I asked you on the LR3 forum regarding appropriate oil. You indicated that the oil must meet the Ford WSS-M2C929 spec. I have found that Castrol Syntec 5w30 meets that spec, but do you know of any other brands/weights?
Thanks
Chris
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Ugh, I'm a moron. Turns out, that spec is obsolete, replaced by WSS-M2C929-A. Tough to keep it all straight.
So I read the other thread a while back and now this one, and still don't really know what I should be using... Whats a non synthetic oil that would work well in a kind of high mileage (130K) D2 that is readily available at auto zone / o'reilly's (the stores in my area stock Mobil 1, Castrol, and maybe a few other big brands)?
I'm going to try that Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic in our 90 next time I change the oil (we run synthetic in it)...
I'm going to try that Mobil 1 0W-40 synthetic in our 90 next time I change the oil (we run synthetic in it)...
Ive never been to an auto parts store that didnt sell Rotella-T
in lieu of that, or if you want to go synthetic, you can use mobil 1 0-40
in lieu of that, or if you want to go synthetic, you can use mobil 1 0-40
Chris-St Louis said:
I've been reading your thread, and thinking. In the DII, I use Amsoil, and in quite a few miles, my engine has remained in good condition so far. When I am pressed for time, and I allow others to service it, people are generally impressed with it's cleanliness inside. I don't drive like a granny, and I don't drive like an idiot, either, so it has had a wide range of revs to work with. I keep it up well, and I change my lubricants obsessively, as well as my filters. The oil never comes out filthy, and every few changes, I flush with a cheaper synthetic with a mild cleaning additive and a cheap filter before changing the filter and refilling for good. I have been using the K&N filters, for no other reason than I suppose that if the filter is indeed higheer flowing, it may provide a freer path to the rather restrictive top end of the Rv8, thus allowing an oil that stays it's proper viscosity longer to do an even better job of lubricating than it would normally do. I have no reason to believe their claims are true, but I haven't had any issues.
Put plainly, I am under the impression that I am using an oil that may hold it's spec better, and that I am using a filter that provides a more free flow of an oil that is likely to be less prone to thinning at high temperatures than low quality oil that people frequently use. This may not be accurate, but at the very least, my frequent changes involving a decent oil can't be hurting anything. If there is an opinion to the contrary, I will gladly consider it in my research.
At 110k miles, however, it is about time to consider just what else I can do that I haven't been doing so far.
I have been using their 10w30XL oil, which is available in town. I used to order it myself, but I found a place that has it fairly cheap. I was turned on to the stuff by a fellow who has been in the lubrication business for many years, and who used their products himself when he didn't use his own creations. The only thing the Amsoil goes in is the DII, as I bought it new, broke it in with Dino through the first change, and at the second change, started the Amsoil. She has been using it ever since. My other cars are always used, and I determine what to use on a case by case basis.
All things considered, I suppose it has worked out well so far, but I have been considering my viscosity of late, and now am thinking about that sheer number, my own being 3.2. I know the Rv8 is picky about things like this.
All the specs are wonderful, but given this engines wonderfully silly design in many aspects, I wonder just what it might prefer in viscosity, if it could have anything it wanted. Living in NC, with high humidity, and temperatures eclipsing 100 on occasion, and in the winter occasionally dipping into the teens, it is a fairly broad range to cover. As well, with my common winter trips to PA, things can change on occasion, though I rarely note anything below zero these days.
I guess I'm just wondering if people consider 10w30 simply not cutting it. I'm interested in that European formula, but that is a bit of a change from what I am currently using.
Cheers,
Kennith
To clarify, even though I use the extended drain oil, I still change it just before 3000 miles, every time, and sometimes sooner, depending on what I have been doing. I don't like black nastiness any more than I like my oil breaking down.
Stupid? Who the heck knows? Seems to have worked fine so far.
Cheers,
Kennith
Stupid? Who the heck knows? Seems to have worked fine so far.
Cheers,
Kennith
kennith said:
Ugh, I keep timing out replying to this. Let me add as I go here.
xWxx ratings should hold little value in the big picture.
First, lets look at that viscosiry is and how its measured.
-20oC/-4oF to -40oC/-40oF extremely low temperature cranking, pumping and low shear viscosity (SAE W)
100oC/212oF low shear viscosity (SAE)
150oC/302oF high temperature high shear viscosity (HTHS)
The SAE W viscosity is an extremely low temperature rating based on the ability of an oil to be pumped and allow engine cranking at -20oC/-4oF to -40oC/-40oF.
See figure one
The Pumping requirement insures a minimum amount of oil pumping capability at a given temperature. The temperature is 30oC/-22oF to for a SAE 10W rating, 35oC/-31oF for an SAE 5W rating and -40oC/-40oF for an SAE 0W rating.
General Motors has a more stringent pumping requirement. A GM 6094M approved SAE 5W-30 is required to have better pumping capability at 35oC/-31oF than other SAE 5W-30 products. GM has similar improved pumping requirements for 0W and 10W ratings. This more stringent GM requirement
insures that oil will reach critical areas of the engine sooner during low temperature starts. Even though the test is performed at extremely low temperatures, a related benefit is generally expected at more moderate temperatures.
There are also minimum cranking requirements. These must be met at 25oC/-13oF for a SAE 0W rating, 30oC/-22oF for a SAE 5W rating, and 35oC/-31oF for an SAE 0W rating.
An SAE 5W-20 must meet the exact same extremely low temperature pumping requirements as an SAE 5W-30 or an SAE 5W-40. A GM 6094M approved SAE 5W-30 is required to have better extremely low temperature pumping characteristics than an SAE 5W-20 that is not GM 6094M approved. These
ratings do not have the ability to indicate which product might tend to flow better a more moderate temperature of 16oC/-60oF.
The standard SAE viscosity rating indicates the low shear kinematic viscosity at 100oC/-212oF. It also sets minimum standards for high shear viscosity at 150oC/-302oF.
See figure two
The standard SAE viscosity rating indicates the ability of the oil to flow at 100oC/-212oF. It also sets minimum requirements for tolerating high shear rates at 150oC/-302oF.
The 100oC/-212oF flow requirements are very broad. The difference between an SAE 20 and an SAE 30 can be insignificant. Likewise, the difference between an SAE 30 and an SAE 40 can be insignificant. The range for an SAE 30 goes all the way from 9.3 centiStokes and 12.5 centiStokes http://www.sizes.com/units/centistokes.htm at 100oC/-212oF. A 9.3 and a 12.4 are both regarded as SAE 30. But, a 12.5 is an SAE 40 and a 9.2 is an SAE 20.
The accepted range for the 150oC/-302oF high shear test is even greater. An SAE 20 can be anything over 2.6 centiPoise. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-centipoise.htm An SAE 30 only has to be slightly higher at 2.9 centiPoise. And, an SAE 40 is not required to be any thicker than an SAE 30 in this test.
SAE 20 products (including 5W-20 and 0W-20) can be as thin as 5.6 centiStokes. But, they are almost always over 8.5 centiStokes. There is good consistency in this viscosity category. Unfortunately the SAE 30 category (including 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30) does not share this consistency.
This creates a great deal of potential for confusion and engine damage within the SAE 30 category. Some SAE 5W-30 products are well below 10.0 centiStokes at 100oC/-212oF and barely over 2.9 centiPoise at 150oC/-302oF. Other SAE 5W-30 products are over 12.0 centiStokes at 100oC/-212oF and well over 3.5 centiPoise at 150oC/-302oF. These two extremes in actual viscosity both carry the same SAE 5W-30 rating. But, they are NOT appropriate for the same applications. The thinner 5W-30 will flow better and cool pistons and piston rings more efficiently. The thicker 5W-30 will provide better high shear force protection.
The ACEA rating system separates the SAE 5W-30 category approximately down the middle. Anything under 3.5 centiPoise at 150oC/-302oF can qualify for ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, C1 or C2 approval but can NOT qualify for ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, C3 or C4 approval. Any product over 3.5 centiPoise at 150oC/-302oF can qualify for ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, C3 or C4 approval but can NOT qualify for ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, C1 or C2 approval.
The ACEA rating system also contains other very stringent requirements. Some ACEA ratings indicate greatly enhanced ability to tolerate extended oil drain intervals. Some ACEA ratings indicate an ability to improve fuel efficiency (even beyond the API Fuel Conserving rating). And, some ACEA ratings indicate different levels of catalytic converterprotection (including some more stringent than ILSAC GF-4).
A/B: gasoline and diesel engine oils, note anything refeering to diesel is for the B rating.
A1/B1
Oil intended for use in gasoline and car + light van diesel engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.6 to 3.5 mPas.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines.
A3/B3
Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines and/or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and/or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.
A3/B4
Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline and direct injection diesel engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.
A5/B5
Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline and car + light van diesel engines designed to be capable of using low friction low viscosity oils with a High temperature / High shear rate viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines.
Lets look at Mbil Products as a example.
extended Performance Mobil 1 10W-30 is 10.7 cSt at 212F and 3.1 cP at 302F.
The extended Performance Mobil 1 5W-30 is 11.0 cSt at 212F and 3.1 cP at 302F.
The regular Mobil 1 5W-30 is 11.3 cSt at 212F and 3.09 cP at 302F.
The regular Mobil 1 10W-30 is 10.0 cSt at 212F and 3.14 cP at 302F.
All four of the above products have the same A5/B5 long life approval. They all have very similar hih temperature (302F) viscosity. At 212F theyr are all similar but the regular 10W-30 is the thinnest and the regular 5w-30 is the thickest (surprise).
Im starting to geek out a little here, but at the end of the day the Xw-XX rating has much less value then the HTHS rating. At temp, that 0-40 will give bter protection then a 10-30. Check the chart on figure 3.
Attachments
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So, using AGIP Synth 10w30 and KN filters, what am I doing-right or wrong? Even the stealership said "it runs like a champ" and I dont go there for anything thats not under warranty
Have to admit, I've got a stash of Havoline 20w50 that I'm gonna keep using in the Series, until it's gone. Once it is, I'll consider Rotella for the ol' gal....
Well, true, but no, it may not be fine; have to admit, I've only had the time to momentarily summarize these, and not digest your oil posts. Quite a lot of data, that I want to get a handle on, but wow, as others have said, my head's spinning. Especially since I'm most concerned about the old 2.25..... I wonder what would be best for it....