P38 Starter Bolt

[kjg48359]

Just my luck, when I pick my son up from university to visit his ailing Grandfather and the starter packs up.

At this point, I just didn’t have much option other than just call the local 24 hour towing company with no background knowledge of if the firm they’ll be taking it to can even do the work (sometimes about the only thing those kinds of shops can do is change belts).

So calling him from out of town, I’m told that one of the bolts on the starter is so frozen that he just can’t seem to get any leverage on it. He tells me, it’s got a hex top instead of a conventional bolt. He thinks he is going to have to take the exhaust manifold to get off it, and might possibly have to weld something on to the bolt to get enough leverage it out.

Has anyone run into this and have any ideas?

At this point, it’s a 2000 (so 15 years old), with about 128,000 on it.

Thanks.

 

[stu454]

It's an 8mm hex. They're not trying hard enough. It can be a bitch, but if I can do it, they ought to be able to figure it out.

Good luck!

 

[discostew]

I told you one day you would have to find one of the 3 guys in your state that can fix it . You picked the wrong guy . If he's damaged the bolt to the point he cant get it out he probably will have to take the manifold off , and its no fault of your own .

 

[jymmiejamz]

They could disassemble the starter motor to get better access to the bolts.

 

[kjg48359]

Thanks Stu. And jymmiejamz, that might be an option at this point since they'd then have to replace all the gaskets involved. I'll pass that along to them.

 

[singingcamel]

Probably stripped out the the hex

 

[kjg48359]

if anyone wants to laugh at my expense, it's not pretty. So yes, I'm assuming with you singingcamel that it's probably stripped. But wait, if you order before midnight, you too can have the mechanic cut the head off, remove the old starter and place the new starter on with only one good bolt. The other bolt he tried to drill out, but only got about 1/8th of an inch in and gave up. He told me that the other shop in town he'd trust would have to pull the engine to properly get at the area.

So with that partially fixed starter (it should hold enough for a couple of months), I drove it back to a shop I'd trust in the greater Detroit area. These guys are cool. Like classic XKEs? From the 1970's with both the 6 (the really desirable ones) and even the ones with the 12 cylinders? They got 'em in the shop. And everything else including classic VW camper/wagons, Audi R8's, Porsche Turbos (of all ages) and they've worked on all sorts of LRs (there was a L322 in the front when I dropped my P38 off last night).

So, a starter costs about $220 from Atlantic British. My cost so far? $800 with all of the botched labor from the college town. On top of that, it's going to cost me a lot more now. But at least these guys are used to older vehicles and rebuilds.

Oh yea. I just spent tons on it. That little overflow connector to the radiator snapped off while I was replacing the headlight housing last week, so I took the opportunity to replace the radiator. While I was in there, I did all of the hoses under the hood as well. I was in there so I might as well put a new water pump on. And I have a new power steering pump and hoses and thermostat as well. In trying to be proactive, look what I get.

It's discouraging. Just a little. That's what preventive maintenance is supposed to be. Preventive. Now it's being reactive and that's way more expensive.

 

[stu454]

Oh, man. I can't laugh at that.

 

[ptschram]

In '01 I paid the Detroit dealer more than $1000 to replace a starter on a Friday afternoon so I could meet my wife at the ferry on the complete opposite side of the state.

The upper bolt couldn't be removed so they removed the exhaust manifold for access.

In this case, that upper bolt can be drilled out using a left-hand drive drill bit and it might just be able to be removed intact without removing the engine.

That said, before I started using the boogered bolt removing tools I now sell, I charged a client $600 to remove the top bolt as it really did require six hours.

Now that I know about the bogeyed up bolt removers, I realize that had the technician at the Detroit dealership bought a set, my starter replacement would only have cost me $500 but he wouldn't have earned as much-in spite of the fact he could have beaten the book like his neighbor's wife had he had the right tool for the job.

 

[kjg48359]

Pt, what is/are they?

At this point I do trust the guys at a place called "Steve's European" in Waterford. But still they estimated it might take 8 hrs. Didn't talk the mechanic, but did let the service adviser know that the cross member comes out probably just a little away from there (I think it's pretty close). I still haven't see it exactly because of the shield.

Evidently the design is a known "design" flaw. Or I guess it should be replaced pre-emptly before 15 years before bolts freeze up.

Any recommendations on some kind of anti-freeze lubricant to use before putting everything back together?

 

[ptschram]

That's bullshit! You just have to know what to expect before you go into the job and have "The correct tool for every job".

Twist sockets, the set number from Snap-On is 213TFSYA, $325.65 from your local Snap-On dealer.

 

[kjg48359]

Thanks (grand total, $800 from the original service station in Lansing, $800 locally). For a starter. Hope that's all it will need for the next year, because I'll never hear the end of that!

 

[kjg48359]

Oh yea. the guy who finished it up told us that he did weld on something to try to get more leverage on it and it didn't hold. Then he went through a couple of drill bits because in tries past, enough heat was applied that it was hardened up pretty well. And to top it off, it looked like to him that the original bolt was cross threaded which was probably the root of all problems.

I think he ended up drilling out the back all of the socket and now there's a nut at the other end. Hopefully long term that will be fine. But in the end, it's the only engine block I've got...