p38's: 4.0 vs. 4.6, Bosch vs. GEMS

[cmoore207]

Okay, so my fiance has roundly rejected the idea of a '95 RRC. It is simply not an option. She liked my DII, but is not crazy about getting another one. She did however leave the door slightly ajar for a p38. Despite a lot of bad press, it seems like these trucks are basically solid with the exception of the EAS and head gaskets.

I came across a '98 4.6 HSE that looks like a good deal, and already has a coil conversion done. It has just over 90k miles, and since its from a dealer I don't know if it has already had the motor work done.

What I would like to know is which motor is considered the safest choice. Bosch or GEMS? 4.0 or 4.6?

I've spent some time on rangerovers.net, but a clear answer isn't jumping out at me.

 

[JSQ]

Well everyone has their own opinion based on what they've seen, but for me, the 4.0 GEMS suffered less failures and was less tempermental than any of the others.

Not by a lot, but enough to notice.


oh, and just so you know, HG leaks aren't really that much more common from one motor to the other, but there is a lot more to go wrong on a P38 than just the EAS.

A LOT more...

 

[jim-00-4.6]

Despite a lot of bad press, it seems like these trucks are basically solid with the exception of the EAS and head gaskets.

I beg to differ, but that's just my opinion.

I came across a '98 4.6 HSE that looks like a good deal, and already has a coil conversion done. It has just over 90k miles, and since its from a dealer I don't know if it has already had the motor work done.

I prefer EAS to coils, but the flame warriors here will immediately jump on me for not toeing the party line. What motor work?

What I would like to know is which motor is considered the safest choice. Bosch or GEMS? 4.0 or 4.6?

On a '98 you will get GEMS. The Bosch Motronic ECU was installed on late build '99s and up.

Some folks like the 4.0 better, since it tends to downshift sooner to make up for having less torque than the 4.6.
The 4.6 has a bit more HP & torque, which is rarely a bad thing.

Please let me know what's wrong with the headgaskets, as I have a 2000 HSE with almost 70,000 miles.

jim

 

[ptschram]

I'm more concerned about the BeCM issues over the engines. The engines are robust, the electronics...

I wouldn't have bought my P38 if I hadn't had a Rovacom.

 

[JSQ]

I'm more concerned about the BeCM issues over the engines. The engines are robust, the electronics...

I wouldn't have bought my P38 if I hadn't had a Rovacom.

And then on top of that there's the AC system...

 

[DiscoJen]

And then on top of that there's the AC system...

uggghhhh, tell me about it!

 

[jim-00-4.6]

And then on top of that there's the AC system...

Jeez.
Tell me about it, too. There's nothing wrong with mine...
j

 

[JSQ]

Jeez.
Tell me about it, too. There's nothing wrong with mine...
j

...yet.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I've been messing around with the idea of a P38 as well, but I've always been sorta scared of them.

So is the official recommendation to steer clear of them unless your willing to really play the repair game? I'm asking from a strictly daily driver, reliable transportation, client-toting vehicle perspective. I am not really willing to play the repair game, as I have my hands full with the Disco and Defender -- they keep me plenty busy for what I have time for.

 

[DiscoJen]

I love my P38...but I'm also willing to do the work. But I may be getting a job that is very far away from my house so the P38 may have to go bye bye in exchange for, God forbid, an economy beater. :ack: I hope not, I will miss the luxury of my beloved P38. And my bling spinners probably won't fit on the beater either.

 

[Matt Taylor]

So what's the work?

It just always seems when people talk about it that it's more convoluted than D1 or Defender issues...

 

[jim-00-4.6]

So what's the work?

It just always seems when people talk about it that it's more convoluted than D1 or Defender issues...

The D1 & defender have no electronics compared to a P38.
IIRC, there's 7 different ECUs in a P38; according to some people, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS WAITING TO SCREW YOU.
I've put an average of 1500 miles a month on mine, without significant issues.
It's my daily driver and my occasional weekend camping / wheeling truck.

She's a supermodel - high maintenance, but damn, she's hot!

My AC is fine. My headgaskets don't leak. It hasn't overheated.

jim
(just my experience, yours may be different)

 

[crown14]

it seems like these trucks are basically solid with the exception of the EAS and head gaskets.

heater core leaks
blend door motors fail
underhood fusebox corrosion/meltdown

hmm what else

body computers, ABS pumps are expensive if they fail. radiators are expensive, steering linkage ends fail a lot, if the transfer case motor goes it will leave you stuck on park.

ive seen a few with broken inner door release handle cables, factory radios and hvac panels that the display or lighting was faulty on, a few with irreversable damage to the leather causing the seats (especially the piping) to get all wavy, the inside a pillar trim flocking seems to dry rot away...

some have a neverending chorous of interior squeaks and rattles.

and of course it gets most if not all of the likely problems a discovery would have related to the engine/transmission.

OH almost forgot, i have seen several with noisy baffles in the intermediate muffler. on cold startup it... well youll know it if you hear it.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There's two ways to look at it Jim, I guess.

You're lucky and have a good one, or

you're on thin ice as you're way overdue.

 

[skippy3k]

I think people exaggerate the problems with P38's. Are there more electronics? Sure. I suppose. Do these added electronics mean more points of failure? I suppose. But how often do these components fail? Not very often, in my opinion. (Unless you are a dealer, who always assume it's the BeCM fault, because it's expensive.) In fact, my BeCM was reporting erroneous fuse failures. A dealer would have replaced it. I took it out and had an electronics technician clean out the coffee that the previous owner had spilled in it. No big deal. Since then I've replaced brakes, rotors, muffler, water pump, and oil pressure relief valve. Seems pretty typical stuff to me.

To give you an idea, here is what's broken on my truck right now;
Left sunroof rail is broken, so the sunroof doesn't open.
I get an intermittent CE light because my purge valve is probably bad.
My door handles are hard to open.
My AC evaporator leaks.
I need to replace my exhaust gaskets.

But I wheel my truck, so none of these things are that big of a deal to me. Also keep in mind I may not be a typical P38 owner. Most P38 owners take their truck to the dealer if the wipers squeak.

Scott

 

[skippy3k]

Oh, and parts are ridiculously expensive. That's my other complaint.

Scott

 

[DiscoJen]

After the engine rebuild I haven't had much trouble. Minor annoyances really. Blender door motors (instead of replacing the faulty one, I just forced it to the cold air position and called it done). HVAC head unit needed replacing. I've been ignoring the faulty blower motor that keeps blowing relays (I've just been replacing the relay when it blows). A bad circuit/relay somewhere in the fan switch system (Chris was able to jump this problem with a couple inches of wire). EAS problems (had a leaky line so I spliced some line, airbag lost seat so I had to reseat it, typical leaks in the valve block so I replaced the o-rings, have a faulty height sensor too which causes a random soft fault but I have been ignoring that problem until I feel like fixing it, 2 faulty air compressors needed to be replaced).

For the most part, I consider myself very lucky to have only had these few problems. And most of them are problems that I was able to work around or put off for my own convenience. Of course, these are problems that if taken to the dealer will cause you an enormous amount of financial hardship. Most of my parts I got for free or at a very good discount, so again, I've been very fortunate and I the ole girl. So much in fact that I think I may give her a bath tomorrow and make those tires all shiny and purty. :drool:

For what it's worth, most dealers will replace the entire EAS system instead of just repairing the fault. Last I heard this is around $1200 just in parts. A/C repairs can also easily get up to the $2k mark because it is a very complex system.

If you aren't loaded but like the luxury and style of the P38 then you will have to do some work yourself to be able to live above your means. ie: me

If you are rich and don't give a crap about padding the dealers wallets then get it, you'll love it.

 

[Best4x4]

When I had my 97 AA Yellow Vitesse 4.6HSE RR the only problems I had were minor vs the years I owned it and the miles I put on it.

Mechanical Problems:

One light bulb behind the Odometer went out
Heater Core O-Rings starting leaking after I bought it
A/C system went low on R-134A once, found leak at condensor & replaced O-Ring
Had a coolant leak at the timing cover, found several loose bolts which fixed the leak

Worn out parts I replaced while owning it:

Brake Pads & Rotors
Spark plug wires & plugs
4 new Bilstein shocks & Arnott Industries Air Bags
RF height sensor (failed due to very fine sand & water getting inside of it)
Radiator (friend broke off the nipple going to the expansion tank by leaning on it accidently)
Optima Red Top Battery

Besides the items listed above my truck also had the typical "british charm" every once in a while, but that is what owning a LR is all about. I sadly traded "Daisy" in for an 05 Jeep Rubicon, but not because my RR was falling apart or I was tired of it, but merely for the fact that I wanted something smaller (already had a 94 RRC & 03 Series II Disco) and I got the next best thing to a D90 which was the Rubicon. I see my RR from time to time and it makes me very sad seeing it, but I had 3 great years with "Daisy" and she never let me down and I hope the new owner gives her the TLC she deserves!

Tad

 

[BuyRovers]

I would recommend the 4.6 hands down. The 4.0 is a dog in the heavy range rover and they suffered from carbon buildup in the valves leading to misfires. As for bosch or GEMS, I own a 4.6 w/ the bosch and have had a good experience. Have always been told they are better than gems. As for common problems, most everyone has hit on them but my specific frustrations have revolved around the air suspension and the heater core. Before you buy, make sure and check the passenger floorboard for any wetness, as it is a sign of a heater core. The airbags are a sweet system (when working) and I replaced mine with Arnott's which I am very fond of. Lastly, I have always been drawn to the 01 or 02's as they have the newer lights and they had the bugs worked out by then...We hope!

C-

 

[ptschram]

Ooh, ooh,ooh, can I play too?

Lemme see what I've had to replace on P38s...

Starting at the front.
Radiators and condensers
Intake gaskets P38s seem to eat them faster than others)
Head jobs (but, they all get that)
ABS pump
Front hubs and seals
Entire front suspensions (the bushings are a real bear)
Front calipers (most likely pilot error, but she was cute AND owned a talent bar!!!)
I think we're up to five BeCMs we've swapped, along with a coupla sets of blend motors, a coupla heater core o-rings, one HeVAC controller, one instrument panel
I cannot tell how many centre switch packs I've disassembled to wash to soda pop out of!
Rear hubs.

For some reason, the post 2000 MY trucks have some diff sealing problems. Last fall, I did three front and rear diff "Gaskets" in a single week.

Can't count the brake jobs either.

EAS-don't get me started, I turn green and rip out of my clothes at mere mention of EAS problems. I've replaced MANY valve blocks, drivers, compressors and air bags. I've also done at least ten coil conversions. The worst is when the exhaust rusts out and blows hot air on the EAS hoses that run across the rear crossmember (hint, a rilfe cleaning rod works real well for snaking new hose into place, and don't believe the naysayers, 1/4" air brake hose and compression fittings work just fine to fix EAS hose issues). The factory fix to replace this hose is to release the body to frame fixings and gently lift the frame tog rant access to the hoses and retaining clips.

When I was at L-R PDX, we saw so many of these trucks, it was far from funny, more like sad! In the short time I was there, I personally took three phone calls from people who were ont ehir way home for car lots with their brandy new P38 and something failed on the drive home!