This is not my first engine build by a long shot but the troubles I'm having are ridiculous. I picked up a really clean 02 D2 that apparently suffered a second headgasket failure. The second engine was acquired from Will and installed by Drew about a year earlier prior to the failure according to the owner. The heads were skimmed and pressure tested. New ering gaskets and headbolts were installed. Afterwards, I noticed an incessant tick at idle but no oil light flicker. I rebuilt the upper valvetrain with new components and put in a new 4.6 cam/lifters along with shims under the rocker towers to set pre-load properly. The tick persisted as did low oil pressure (viewed using a mechanical gauge). Breaking it down I also noted 2 wiped cam lobes. I had a rebuilt D1 short block in the garage so I moved all the new stuff over to this engine (changing out the CKP sensor bracket), and installed a new camshaft/lifters and new front oil pump/timing cover. The upper engine was primed with oil but I didn't open the oil pump and pack with petroleum jelly. When I fired up the engine yesterday afternoon it clattered like crazy momentarily until oil pressure built to 50 psi at 3k rpm which steadily dropped as time went by. After 20 minutes of break-in I dropped it to idle. Oil pressure became nonexistent (mechanical gauge installed) and the oil light flickered. There was a light knocking sound which I thought was a rod. It was shut down and I walked away very disheartened. A couple of hours later I started the engine and it sounded much better. There was no knocking and oil pressure was 25 psi at fast idle but dropped to 0 as it warmed up. The tapping noise returned but at lower db's. I haven't decided what direction to go in now but think I'll have to pull the engine yet again. Can anyone offer up what I missed here? The cost and frustration are wearing me down.
Rebuilt engine woes
- Thread starter ezzzzzzz
- Start date
I'm no expert on the specifics of these engines by any measure. Things that can cause low pressure,... missing galley plugs, excessive oil pump clearances, excessive main and rod bearing clearances, cam bearing clearance, filter bypass valve missing.
I'm not sure I would recommend petroleum jelly in the pump. Maybe some lubriplate 105 assembly lube. I lube everything liberally with 105 during assembly.
I'm not sure I would recommend petroleum jelly in the pump. Maybe some lubriplate 105 assembly lube. I lube everything liberally with 105 during assembly.
Before you pull the engine remove and open up the oil pump and check for cracked gears. It happened to me before and I wasted a lot of time before discovering that was the issue.
Started it up this morning and brought it to temperature. Swapped out the mechanical oil pressure gauge too. It has 12-15psi at idle and jumps up towards 50psi when I blip the throttle. The oil pump/cover is brand new. The knock is still there and gets more pronounced as it warms up but it hasn't exploded yet. I'm guessing I should pull the pan and inspect the rod bearings. Maybe I could swap out the offending one, if that's the real issue, and try again assuming the crank isn't damaged.
What's the shims under the rocker pedastles your talking about? Check those to make sure you have oil flow from the head into the rocker shafts. Also look at the rocker arms. If you used the originals look for loose cups at the pushrod end of the rocker. If you replaced the rockers look at them to make sure you have them in the correct positions. Should be 8 rights and 8 lefts. Each bank gets 4 rights and 4 lefts.
Oil pressure appears to hover in the 12-15psi range and rises upon throttle towards 50psi so I think the pump is fine. The valvetrain has the correct orientation and new rockers/shafts/pushrods. The knock appears to be in the rear of the short block. I'm pulling the oil pan today and checking the rod bearings. Hopefully I'll find the offending rod and see only bearing damage so I can replace it and move on with other projects.
I inspected the lower rod bearings and a couple of uppers. Everything looks like normal wear. The rod journals are fine. I did not pull any main caps as I don't suspect them to be the issue. I noticed that I've lost a second camshaft due to lobe wear and it's in the same location as before. I guess there is some oil flow restriction or clearance issues not allowing that tappet to rotate properly. That must be where the noise is coming from. I'm going to pull this engine out again and build another block or possibly locate a decent used engine. The time and costs are freaking aggravating! :banghead:
Oil pressure issues aside, I had a similar problem with another Rover V8 and the tick turned out to be piston slap.
This is the second time I've heard of people putting petroleum jelly in the oil pump during a rebuild.. I cannot understand this... completely blocking the oil pump while starting a brand new engine is a surefire way to starve the engine of oil in these crucial first moments.. simple engine oil, or assembly oil is all that is required, and before you start it, remove the fuel pump fuse and crank the engine for 15-20 seconds to prime the pump and build pressure before you fire it up... my rant, over.
pdogg
"This is the second time I've heard of people putting petroleum jelly in the oil pump during a rebuild.. I cannot understand this..."
ezzzzzzz Said:
"The upper engine was primed with oil but I didn't open the oil pump and pack with petroleum jelly."
He didn't pack the oil pump with it. But that aside I have seen many places where people say to do it. That doesn't make it the right way, but I have seen it work a few times.
"This is the second time I've heard of people putting petroleum jelly in the oil pump during a rebuild.. I cannot understand this..."
ezzzzzzz Said:
"The upper engine was primed with oil but I didn't open the oil pump and pack with petroleum jelly."
He didn't pack the oil pump with it. But that aside I have seen many places where people say to do it. That doesn't make it the right way, but I have seen it work a few times.
Packing a pump with petroleum jelly was done to allow a quicker prime of the pump. It's been done for over 50 years, that I know of. A better way is to use a pump priming tool, if you can. Assembly lube will protect the bearing and cam surfaces to a point, but not aid in priming the pump. Since you can't use a priming tool on engines without a dizzy you're stuck with this method, if you choose to use it. [Unrelated , but helpful, on old dizzy engines you can benefit from using a high volume/high pressure oil pump kit for a Buick 215. Then they won't have scary low oil pressure at idle.]
From an engineering stand point the petroleum jelly has a high viscosity and the oil pump will move it and that will create suction and pull the oil from the sump. But there are better things to use with the newer products that are available today. My dad in his early days of building motors said he used petroleum jelly, and later used a grease cut with motor oil as assembly lube when he was doing builds for small aircraft. <?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
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This is most likely a what oil is best subject, some will say one brand and type and another will say the a different brand and type. <o></o>
But I would assume that the motors in all the older rovers were probably broken in with petroleum jelly just the way RAVE says to do it.<o></o>
fficeffice" /><o></o>This is most likely a what oil is best subject, some will say one brand and type and another will say the a different brand and type. <o
></o>But I would assume that the motors in all the older rovers were probably broken in with petroleum jelly just the way RAVE says to do it.<o
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