replacing series III head

[EricSiepmann]

I would walk away from that truck. It's really hard to tell the exact condition of the other important items such as leaking swivels and drivetrain.

Bottom line is 5k is the cost of admission to a thousands more spent to get it up to a respectable condition.

EwS

 

[Hoot]

ok guys thanks, im gonna walk on this one. it was my gut feeling, but then theres the little kid in me that wants one badly. i'll keep looking, and keep asking for all your advice. thanks again.

 

[ckuhtz]

Quite simple. The 1,600 is just for the repair panels. Add labour, shipping, paint and prep and you get to around 3k as an estimate. The above paragraph explains what is needed for the repair, not the entire cost of the repair.

Ah ok. I read "steel work" as labor as well. Could be due to the fact that I'm not a native speaker and a bit short on vocab here. I haven't called up ECR to discuss this, so, thanks for the help.

Btw, is there any reason not to hot dip galvanize a restored bulkhead when presented with the option?

 

[Leslie]

Long day, spent working on my Series, AAMOF......

My computer is running REALLY slow tonight (I'm on dial-up, and after whenever we've had a storm move through, the line speed drops for a few days, so I'm stuck at 9k right now.... so, I'm still waiting on your photos to load, but I'm gonna go ahead and start commenting....)

Well, after reading the above, I was really about to jump on the bandwagon and say to walk away, that you need to find a better one to start with.... the first couple of pics loaded, and I was noticing that the bumper had hit something and the towbar and the PTO winch are all a mess together, the drivers side wing and tub are a little dimpled/dented, etc. etc..... I am a REALLY big advocate of making sure that someone can handle owning a Series, and, finding a good Series to start with... a not-so-nice Series will send a non-committed neophyte screaming, calling Rovers the biggest hunk-of-junk ever, if they're not ready to deal with the usual crap.


But....

But I'm looking at more of the pictures as they load, and thinking about the info stated....

This Rover was originally a lot like mine, mine is a mid-'72 88" LHD for the US.... a 259XXX serial number as this one should be, too...

The thing that was striking me was how original it is. It looks like it has all the interior bits, it has the roof that has the sunsheet but no alpine windows (which was correct for this one), the flat bonnet and the large amber lights... If it has dual tanks that are working and a functioning PTO winch, those would be a bit unusual, but if part of an originial special order, that's cool...

This thing is in better shape that what mine was when I first got it.

The engine bay pic has just loaded, and it's not been kept terribly clean, but looks mostly complete, but the Bud can gave me a start (not a good thing to have for a cap). The floorboard is silted up, I would expect rust in the seam of the bulkhead's footwells, but that's not the hardest repair.

No, the dented rear cross-member isn't a plus, but if it's not rusted through you might be able to have it repaired w/o having to replace it. Or live with it.....

If you are wanting a really sharp-looking Rover, something that can do well at British car shows or turn lots of heads, well, no, this isn't one to start with. Older IIas are more popular at such, and, what you would spend to make this thing look a lot better will really surprise you what you spend in time and labor. You would want a new galvanized chassis, and then you'd want to paint it, then re-galvanize the trim, and before you know it shipfitters has struck.... and there goes $10k on top of the original price.....

But....

But, if you want a Series for fiddling with, to learn about them, to cut your teeth... to have as a novel off-roader (not a Wrangler or a Skyjacked F-truck), this may be a decent one to get.....

If you won't get anal on appearance, and don't expect it to be a Defender in ride or on-road manners (it IS a leaf-sprung 4-cyl, not a V8 coiler), this *could* be a good truck.

I think the price is actually pretty reasonable, though less would be better, given that the chassis is patched and still in need, as is the head....

If you really are uncomfortable with it, don't get it. But, I can't say to run away, as I was expecting to....

IMHO, FWIW......


-L

 

[Leslie]

Btw, is there any reason not to hot dip galvanize a restored bulkhead when presented with the option?

I galvanized mine.

Things to consider:
A) You can do a frame swap on a Series w/o completely dissassembling the vehicle. Put it on jackstands, pull the axles out and put them under the new chassis, pull the engine/transmission and put it in, then use a forklift or an overhead crane, and migrate the body over as a unit.
B) A lot of the places that need repairs, can be done with the bulkhead in place. Replacing the pillars, the footwells, the outer edges of the scuttles below where the windscreen hinges are, etc... No need to dissassemble the vehicle to simply patch those.
C) If you're going to galvanize it, you have to pull EVERYTHING off... every little screw anchor, drill out the rivnuts, remove the original putty that was layered between the panels, etc.
D) You should sandblast it, get the paint, and the rust, ALL out.
E) When you make the repairs with the bulkhead off, while it's easier to get at it, sometimes things don't quite line up when you start to put things back... might have to use a spreader to get the bulkhead feet back into place for it to bolt to the chassis, etc.
F) Then you have to reinstall EVERYTHING, all those rivnuts (and if you didn't drill them out, then they're full of zinc and when you try to tap them out, they'll break loose, and you'll still end up having to reinstall them), the anchors, etc. Lots of drilling out the zinc.
G) You can't easily paint the galvanizing. The metal has a texture to it after being galvanized, and primer really doesn't like adhering to it. Have to etch it, then prime, fill, sand it smooth, redo to get it smoother, then finally paint, and, it still won't be quite right.

If you want it to look stock once done, don't do it.

But, I'd still do mine again. I left mine as galvanized, and I like it. But, it does look different. You may get through and not like the look. And, you have to know enough about it to get it back together afterwards.... it's not like you're swapping springs or tuning a carb, it's a much more ambitious project.


FWIW.....


-L

 

[LR Max]

First off, Leslie, looking good. Although it doesn't look like its progressed a lot more than it did a few years ago. I guess you've had too much fun with the wife's disco. Considering that is what I did with my dads' rig, then I don't blame ya .


On buying a series: look for that one truck that someone has put their heart and soul into. Sure, you'll pay about 3k more, but it'll work, everything has been replaced/rebuilt and it is a true turn-key vehicle. Sure, its nice to do your own work and everything, but it is sure more economical this way.

That is still a cool looking rig. Personally, I'd just do the head gasket and drive it. Oh, and get rid of the tall boy oil cap. Looks like the perfect trail rig. The PTO winch is sweet and straight frames on the trail are overrated .

 

[Hoot]

hmmm, now my decision is harder... what to do... i will have to ponder.

 

[Ron]

For 5k I would buy it. The winch will fetch $1000 alone. As you say it drives well.

It does not look too rusted at all and you are out west correct?

 

[Leslie]

First off, Leslie, looking good. Although it doesn't look like its progressed a lot more than it did a few years ago.

Now Max, to be fair, no, it's not been a fast project.... but two years ago, it looked like the picture below.... And, that first picture isn't current... there's a lot that wasn't done then that is there now.... side and rear glass, alpines, door-locks, brake and clutch lines, shocks, radiator, lights.... I've got to finish getting the dash back in, get the wiring harness in next, etc.... Remember What About Bob.... Baby Steps..... progress is being made....


-L

 

[Hoot]

leslie. looks like you have a a few series rovers to spare.. why dont you sell me one of those in the back ground??

 

[ckuhtz]

For 5k I would buy it. The winch will fetch $1000 alone. As you say it drives well.

It does not look too rusted at all and you are out west correct?

Wasn't it you who made the sweeping generalization of rusty crossmember == new frame?

 

[Leslie]

leslie. looks like you have a a few series rovers to spare.. why dont you sell me one of those in the back ground??

LOL!!!

I would if I could..... but, they aren't mine.... my Rover is at the shop. Let's see.... The limestone SIII 88" (also similar to the one you're looking at) was sold, but for the life of me I can't remember where it went off the top of my head... The lightweight was in the shop for minor repairs, and then went back home. The 109" in the background is still around, but, is no longer together - it's been dissassembled, and the rear body put onto a coiler chassis... but that project is on the wait at the moment... there's another 109" being rebuilt, and then there's a D90 that's about to become a 110...

There are currently three 88" Rovers at the shop that are available; one is actually the shop's, and the other two are on consignment. The two consignment ones are both limestone IIa's... one is a RHD soft-top, the other a LHD trop top. I don't remember the asking prices on 'em, but they're both in the $13k-18K range, I think.... The shop one is a green late IIa but with an earlier breakfast, so it's a 4-lighted Rover. Not as pretty as the two consignment ones, but, it's a solid runner.... http://www.thatchedroofgarage.com/70S2.htm

Either of the two consignment ones, sure, they'd be a sure bet to be better looking, but, they'll take a bigger chunk out of the wallet... as with anything, if you want a nicer one, it's gonna cost more.... The green one is a good one for someone who isn't looking for an immaculate Rover, but I don't see that it'd be worth shipping it all the way to Cali if you already have one there that you're looking at....

FWIW.......

-L

 

[Ron]

"Wasn't it you who made the sweeping generalization of rusty crossmember == new frame?"

Yes, but his crossmember is not rusty, it is bent. BIG difference. If it were rusty it would be a different story.

 

[Leslie]

Wasn't it you who made the sweeping generalization of rusty crossmember == new frame?

I don't want to put words in Ron's mouth (after all, he IS in law school, lol....), but I think I know where he was coming from....

The rear crossmember of a Rover is bad to pack in mud and dirt and not get cleaned out, so it rusts, is one of the parts that rusts out first. The front frame horns and the bulkhead outriggers are also subject to rusting before the main rails. Well, the chassis all rust from the inside out... once you have enough rust that you have to replace the rear crossmember, eventually, the rest of the chassis will probably succumb to rust. With a rear crossmember replacement (or outrigger replacement, etc.), you can buy several more years out of a current chassis before it has to be replaced.

When Jason was first talking about the rear crossmember being replaced, before we had the pictures, I made the assumption that it was rusted out; I'm guessing Ron did the same. Once we had the story about it being dented instead of rusty, and it doesn't look that rusty (CAVEAT: it's hard to really see from pics online!) then that does change the perception a bit....


Anyway.....

Take a hammer, crawl under the vehicle and go to town... see if the outriggers are solid, check the rails around the spring perches, check the crossmember, the frame horns at the front bumper... if things don't give, then it's probably solid enough to be around for quite a few more years......

Because the head needs work, needs shocks, the rear crossmember is dented, you have negotiating room... But, don't buy it just because I would... I'm not there in person, it's not my money you're spending... make sure you're comfortable with it, if you're not confident, then maybe you need to listen to your gut... The last thing I would want happen is for you to end up despising Rovers because that crackpot on the internet said that it didn't look to be too bad of a Rover when he hadn't seen it in person... know what I mean?


Good luck.....


-L

 

[Leslie]

"Wasn't it you who made the sweeping generalization of rusty crossmember == new frame?"

Yes, but his crossmember is not rusty, it is bent. BIG difference. If it were rusty it would be a different story.

Doh! Ron replied while I was typing.... lol........


I concur.....



-L

 

[Dan Ratcliffe]

I think there is something all of us are learning about our series. And it is something you should consider when you buy one.

If it hasn't been replaced, it will need to be replaced.

If it wasn't replaced recently, chances are it will need to be replaced very soon.

New in rover speak needs to be the same as everyday speak. Something replaced last year is no longer new.

Looks don't mean diddly, except it can be worse than it looks.

I drive it like that all the time and it hasn't bothered me, is not the same as that is the way it is supposed to be.

 

[ckuhtz]

"Wasn't it you who made the sweeping generalization of rusty crossmember == new frame?"

Yes, but his crossmember is not rusty, it is bent. BIG difference. If it were rusty it would be a different story.

Ok, ok, I'm just busting your chops. ;-)

 

[Hoot]

looks like my rover dreams are not looking to likely. looks like the wife would rather spend the money on a downpayment for a home. i guess she has a point. lol. i can keep dreaming though.

 

[KEJ]

Owner-owned roof over your head = appreciating asset. Most motorized vehicles = depreciating asset. No brainer: buy your home first. At least them you'll be spilling your oil on your own driveway.

KJ

 

[Leslie]

Have to concur.... need a garage for the Rover anyway, so, get the house first.... a Rover can wait.....







-L