Republican GOP

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
15,651
869
58
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
Kris - the largest aquifer (or one of the largest) is lost for the U.S. for a simple reason that that's where the underground nuclear tests have been conducted.
And Bill can tell you if one can possibly run a pipeline through an underground aquifer. Hold on, he's already asked you about spray paint....
 

Big Papa

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2007
1,504
0
McKinney, TX
knewsom said:
There are MANY moderates who oppose the keystone pipeline. That thing is an ecological disaster waiting to happen, and with the rapid advances of algae based fuel, it may not even be necessary.

With Iran threatening to close the Strait of Hormuz, and Obama's idiotic decision to reject a pipeline, I'm really looking forward to $7 a gallon.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
Blue said:
How do you think the pipeline is constructed? It's not as if they have ol' Cooter put down his jug of moonshine and weld together a few sections of rusty pipe. These systems have leak detection down to an incredible level of precision and accuracy.

This reminds me of something... what was it? Ohhhhhh yeah...

Deepwater_horizon_platform_sinking-300x203.jpg


Look, I could give a shit if this pipeline went through the desert, or even beautiful pristine mountains. ....but the largest fucking aquifer in the continent????? You da one be huffin' da paint, son.

p m said:
Kris - the largest aquifer (or one of the largest) is lost for the U.S. for a simple reason that that's where the underground nuclear tests have been conducted.

All the more reason not to threaten another.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,081
887
AZ
Regarding the algae science experiment, that is great news. Now please have them ship 20 million barrels per day across the country to satisfy demand.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,081
887
AZ
knewsom said:
This reminds me of something... what was it? Ohhhhhh yeah...

Deepwater_horizon_platform_sinking-300x203.jpg


Look, I could give a shit if this pipeline went through the desert, or even beautiful pristine mountains. ....but the largest fucking aquifer in the continent????? You da one be huffin' da paint, son.



All the more reason not to threaten another.


Apples and oranges there, knewsom.
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
15,651
869
58
La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
Also, speaking of algae...
One very close friend of mine worked at UCSD on something to make synthetic fuel using bacteria... He bailed out.
Another close friend of mine left our company and moved to Hawaii to work for a company that claimed success in making diesel fuel out of algae. He bailed out.
Our own company has a division specifically to make diesel fuel out of algae. Don't see many job openings there.

I wonder why...
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
Blue said:
Regarding the algae science experiment, that is great news. Now please have them ship 20 million barrels per day across the country to satisfy demand.

Read a little more on their site. It's not an experiment anymore. It's a carbon-neutral, net-energy yield operation, that's going into mass-production this year. They're ramping up - building plants here in the southwest. One estimate I heard said we could meet all of N. America's demand (yes, the continent) with an area of land the size of Virginia. Well guess what - we've got about a hundred Virginia's worth of space here in the SouthWest.
 

Big Papa

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2007
1,504
0
McKinney, TX
knewsom said:
Look, I could give a shit if this pipeline went through the desert, or even beautiful pristine mountains. ....but the largest fucking aquifer in the continent????? You da one be huffin' da paint, son.

They had already planned to re route the pipeline away from the aquifer. Doesn't matter now, China already called dibs. Good job Barry.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
p m said:
Also, speaking of algae...
One very close friend of mine worked at UCSD on something to make synthetic fuel using bacteria... He bailed out.
Another close friend of mine left our company and moved to Hawaii to work for a company that claimed success in making diesel fuel out of algae. He bailed out.
Our own company has a division specifically to make diesel fuel out of algae. Don't see many job openings there.

I wonder why...

Dunno - but Sapphire has been doing this for years, and is hiring. They're finishing a plant in N. Mex that's supposed to produce 100m barrels a year.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,081
887
AZ
Good for them, I hope it's a success. But until it's a success the world has to march onward with what we know works. Also, LOL on the carbon neutral crap...
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
Big Papa said:
They had already planned to re route the pipeline away from the aquifer. Doesn't matter now, China already called dibs. Good job Barry.

Specifically under the aquifer. Far too close for comfort.

Just admit it - this pipeline has massive logistical problems and an unacceptably high level of risk. There are plenty of other things we can do to create jobs.
 

Big Papa

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2007
1,504
0
McKinney, TX
knewsom said:
Specifically under the aquifer. Far too close for comfort.

Just admit it - this pipeline has massive logistical problems and an unacceptably high level of risk. There are plenty of other things we can do to create jobs.

The State Department reviewed this project for three years. So any problems that were in question, were already addressed. It was already accepted by state & local officials, and it would have created near a 100,000 new jobs instantly. But our reasonable & moderate President rejected it.

Maybe those folks hoping to be employed by this project to put food on the table can apply at the algae based fuel plants. Oh wait....
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
Big Papa said:
The State Department reviewed this project for three years. So any problems that were in question, were already addressed. It was already accepted by state & local officials, and it would have created near a 100,000 new jobs instantly. But our reasonable & moderate President rejected it.

Maybe those folks hoping to be employed by this project to put food on the table can apply at the algae based fuel plants. Oh wait....

Well, they're in New Mexico and California, so probably not.

From Wikipedia:

Environmental issues
See also: Environmental risks of the Keystone XL pipeline
Some environmental groups, citizens, and politicians have raised concerns about the potential impacts of the Keystone XL extension.[42][43][44] One concern is that the pipeline could pollute air and water supplies and harm migratory birds and other wildlife.[20] Its original route crosses the Sandhills in Nebraska, the large wetland ecosystem, and the Ogallala Aquifer, one of the largest reserves of fresh water in the world.[45] The Ogallala Aquifer spans eight states, provides drinking water for two million people, and supports $20 billion in agriculture.[46] A major leak could ruin drinking water and devastate the mid-western U.S. economy.[47] After opposition for laying the pipeline in this area, TransCanada agreed to change the route and skip the Sand Hills.[34]
Portions of the pipeline will also cross an active seismic zone that had a 4.3 magnitude earthquake as recently as 2002.[46] Opponents claim that TransCanada applied to the U.S. government to use thinner steel and pump at higher pressures than normal.[47]
In its March 2010 report, the Natural Resources Defense Council stated that "the Keystone XL Pipeline undermines the U.S. commitment to a clean energy economy", instead delivering dirty fuel from oil sands and high costs.[14] In December, 2010, No Tar Sands Oil campaign was launched. Sponsored by a number of action groups, including Corporate Ethics International, NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council), Sierra Club, National Wildlife Federation, Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace, and Rainforest Action Network and featuring TV ads on CNN, MSNBC, and Comedy Central, the $500,000 US campaign asked that people urge President Obama to stop the Keystone XL pipeline from being built by visiting The National Wildlife Federation website. [48] On August 21, 2011, The New York Times published an editorial opposing the Keystone XL pipeline because of the additional greenhouse gas emissions and the probability of oil spills in sensitive areas.[49]
In October 2011, The New York Times questioned the impartiality of the environmental analysis of the pipeline done by Cardno Entrix, an environmental contractor based in Houston. The study found that the pipeline would have`limited adverse environmental impacts, but was authored by a firm that had "previously worked on projects with TransCanada and describes the pipeline company as a 'major client' in its marketing materials." According to The New York Times, legal experts questioned whether the US government was "flouting the intent" of the Federal National Environmental Policy Act which "[was] meant to ensure an impartial environmental analysis of major projects."[50] The report prompted 14 senators and congressmen to ask the State Department inspector general on October 26 "to investigate whether conflicts of interest tainted the process" for reviewing environmental impact.[51]
TransCanada CEO Russ Girling has described the Keystone Pipeline as "routine," noting that TransCanada has been building similar pipelines in North America for half a century and that there are 200,000 miles (320,000 km) of similar oil pipelines in the United States today. He also stated that the Keystone Pipeline will include 57 improvements above standard requirements demanded by U.S. regulators so far, making it "the safest pipeline ever built."[52] Rep. Ed Whitfield, a member of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce concurred, saying "this is the most technologically advanced and safest pipeline ever proposed."[53] However, while TransCanada had asserted that a set of 57 conditions will ensure Keystone XL's safe operation, some investigative journalists asserted that all but a few of these conditions simply restate current minimum standards.[54]
In a speech to the Canadian Club in Toronto on September 23, 2011, Joe Oliver, Canada's Minister of Natural Resources, sharply criticized opponents of oil sands development and the pipeline, arguing that:
The total area that has been affected by surface mining represents only 0.1% of Canada's boreal forest.
The oil sands account for about 0.1% of global greenhouse-gas emissions.
Electricity plants powered by coal in the U.S. generate almost 40 times more greenhouse-gas emissions than Canada's oil sands (the coal-fired electricity plants in the State of Wisconsin alone produce the equivalent of the entire GHG emissions of the oil sands).
California bitumen is more GHG-intensive than the oil sands.
Oliver criticized opponents of the pipeline, stating that all of the above facts are ignored by "celebrity protestors."[55]
Writing in the National Post, Diane Francis argued that opposition to the pipeline "makes no sense because emissions from the oil sands are a fraction of the emissions from coal and equivalent to California heavy crude oils or ethanol" and questioned why "None of these has been getting the same attention as the oil sands and this pipeline."[56]

For me this has nothing to do with carbon. Hell, I'd like to see the jobs this would create. ...but there are plenty of other projects that will provide plenty of jobs - and unemployment is already falling.

The key here is the Ogallala Aquifer. Sure, the pipeline might have electronic leak-detection.... all that means is that we'll know much sooner that we're completely boned. Putting at risk one of the largest reserves of clean fresh water in the world is just plain foolish.
 

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
0
East Virginia
Big Papa said:
The State Department reviewed this project for three years. So any problems that were in question, were already addressed. It was already accepted by state & local officials, and it would have created near a 100,000 new jobs instantly. But our reasonable & moderate President rejected it.

State said 3,000 to 6,000 temporary jobs would be created. Even the the overly-optimistic and clearly partisan American Petroleum Institute was only touting 20,000....
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
knewsom said:
This reminds me of something... what was it? Ohhhhhh yeah...

Deepwater_horizon_platform_sinking-300x203.jpg




Look, I could give a shit if this pipeline went through the desert, or even beautiful pristine mountains. ....but the largest fucking aquifer in the continent????? You da one be huffin' da paint, son.



All the more reason not to threaten another.

Is this supposed to be a comparison? The blowout preventor was three miles under the ocean. Even in the worst case scenario the flow could have been taken off line in a matter of days, not months...
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
The truth of the matter is the damn thing should just be built. It would create jobs, help with product and demand and keep local police busy by pulling hippies out of the trees.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,081
887
AZ
knewsom said:
The key here is the Ogallala Aquifer. Sure, the pipeline might have electronic leak-detection.... all that means is that we'll know much sooner that we're completely boned. Putting at risk one of the largest reserves of clean fresh water in the world is just plain foolish.

You really have no idea how these systems work, do you? Yet you are perfectly comfortable whipping out absolutes based on your complete and total ignorance.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
Blue said:
You really have no idea how these systems work, do you? Yet you are perfectly comfortable whipping out absolutes based on your complete and total ignorance.

Again, I submit the following:

0422-oil-rig-environment_full_600.jpg


Billions of gallons of toxic liquid travelling underground through the largest freshwater reserve in North America. What could possibly go wrong?

Risk vs Reward. It really IS that simple, brother. Fuck politics - this pipeline is a bad call.