Ruined Two Tires Towing

[jwhcars]

I drove 1700 miles towing a 1500lb car trailer , I loaded the approx. 2500lb Porsche 914 on the trailer and dove another 1700 miles. When I got home I noticed that the rear tires where both worn and cupped on the inside edge. What a disappointment,I thought the air suspension would keep everything in line.On the positive side the LR3 towed the trailer like it was not even there.Any ideas what I may have done wrong?

 

[ozscott]

nothing has gone wrong my friend. What you have bought is a vehicle with independant suspension with camber and castor angles on the rear wheels and when it gets laden down they force flat and wear where the extra force is. You CAN NOT under any circumstances beat a beam rear end for towing heavy weights. Tyres are already squate to the road and just squash flatter and are even - no wear on the edges. You will always have this problem. Sorry.

Cheers

 

[jwhcars]

Thanks for the information...so much for the LR3 being a tow vehicle.Looks like I just wasted the money on all the towing equipment. Oh well at least I did not purchase a trailer as I had planned.

 

[nwoods]

JWHCars, take the advice above with a grain of salt. Ozscott loves to play in the LR3 forum and give rubbish advice. He knows very little about the LR3, but certainly has a fetish for mocking them.

The LR3 is widely regarded as an excellent tow vehicle by a large number of people on all the forums I participate in. True, the trailer hitch is silly, but the truck can tow with the best of them, the capacity to tow more than the Disco's and Classics.

The true culprit to your tire issue lies with a TSB out for the bushings in your suspension set up. They are wearing prematurely, causing camber alignment issues, and they will wear out the crappy Goodyear Wrangler HP's very quickly.

LRNA is handling this issue a bit oddly, but the most common scenario seems to be that LRNA will replace two of your tires, possibly prorated by mileage, as long as your total vehicle mileage is under some magical number, often 12,000 miles. They will also replace the bushings under warranty and do a full four wheel alignment, but you have to request it (which you definitely should do!)

I have heard of the "Good for one year" tires wearing out anywhere from 6,000 miles to 15,000 miles. Not many (if any) have gone much further than that on the stock tires.

I don't have the TSB number handy. My advice is to go to www.disco3.co.uk and search there. You will find lots of related info and experiences there.

I personally have my alignment checked every few months, particularly after aggressive trail runs. I just take it to the nearest tire shop near my house and don't fuss with the dealer. It's much faster for me that way.

Also, I'm wondering if you have had the "enhancement" software update done to your truck yet? In addition to all new firmware, they replace the air compressor. Many report a firmer ride and I suspect it may also load balance your ride a bit better when towing.

Regards,

Nathan

 

[jwhcars]

Sigh.....Thanks nwood for your input, I was really dissapointed after reading ozscott's
post.I will call the dealer Monday and hopefully they will be able to solve the problem.
I only had 9,800 miles on the LR3 when I started my trip to Colorado, now I have around 13,400 miles.
I had the dealer install the trailer wiring harness,a saftey check and oil change before I left. I paid the price for this just incase something went wrong...now lets see if it pays off.

 

[lr3hse]

JWHCars, Nathan is correct about the alignment issues on models VIN: 5A000360 to 6A403382 and is addressed in TB LA204-005 Dated 03 Oct 2006. It is not a towing issue !!

Check out some of the other LR3 forums and hear what actual owners have to say, then you can separate fact from fiction HTH

John

 

[azarmadillo]

What was the tongue weight of the trailer?

 

[ozscott]

Fetish...mmm.:applause:

I have towed with independantly suspended rear vehicles before - always get inside tyre wear irrespective of set up and alignment. The nature of independant rear ends as I outlined in my post means that they will do this - against live axles that will never do so because as I say their tyres are level and flat against the ground to start with.

I think that for onroad towing the LR3 would be superior in many ways to the Disco series I and II, but only if you can handle tyre wear.

Cheers

PS. I was not running your vehicle down as such, just pointing out that people who buy the LR3 might have in mind that they, as the new model, MUST be better at every level than the older ones, but alas, thats not always true about any manufacturers new model.

Cheers

 

[ozscott]

...its not just LRs look at the Mistubishi Pajeros that have similar problems.

 

[gordonwh]

Fetish...mmm.:applause:

Well, you _do_ know bugger all about them ....

I have towed with independantly suspended rear vehicles before - always get inside tyre wear irrespective of set up and alignment. The nature of independant rear ends as I outlined in my post means that they will do this - against live axles that will never do so because as I say their tyres are level and flat against the ground to start with.

This is true for std IRS vehicles. However, on a _properly functioning_ LR3, there should be no more tyre-wear when towing a legal weight than when unladen (other than simple downforce wear) - because the air-suspension ECU will re-adjust the car's attitude to level. Hence the car is riding at the same height, therefore no change in wheel alignment. When I towed my tralier across the NT and SA, that's exactly what happened.

The tyre-wear the original poster experienced is probably due to the distance travelled with the suspension geometry out of alignment, and nothing to do with towing.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[ozscott]

I hope for the sake of those who regularly tow with them that you are right Gordon. I regularly tow a 2 tonn dual axle boat with my D2 and I have been considering a D3 for a daily (lease) driver, but one of the problems I had with them was the independant rear for towing. I had never bothered posting about this, but I was interested to see someone with what appeared to be a problem because of IRS. I hope that I am wrong and that the air bag self levelling does releave the problem, but I am far from convinced that the self levelling would do away with wear on heavy loads such as my boat.

Cheers

PS. I know nothing about the LR3 except what I read and hear - having said that I have been wheeling for some time. How do you know that the wear was "probably" due to suspension geometry being out of alignment?

 

[ozscott]

...also doesnt this point to distinct possibilty that if the bushes in this very heavy machine are not pristine then towing will wear tyres. You can wreck tyres towing heavy loads in a very short pace of time. I think the design of all independant rears are suspect for towing because they are not at all sympathetic to being out from wear, impact or poor alignment int the first place. Again - the LR3 is an impressive tow vehicle and wins the tow awards in Australia for good reason it seems, but those awards are about towing power and economy and do not take into account long range towing of heavy weights and tyre wear. I think that if you own a D3 you might have to expect some compromises in this area.

But thats just my 2CW from someone who knows nothing about the D3.

Cheers again

 

[ozscott]

...might have to put that as my avatar "Knows nothing about the LR3/D3, they are so different from any other independantly suspended vehicle"

 

[nwoods]

Oz, the LRW forums seem to have a lot of activity on this topic. Start with this thread here:
http://www.landroverworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4393

 

[ozscott]

Thanks Nathan - couldnt see anything one way or the other about rear tyre wear. I see plenty of people very happy with the tow ability and I have no doubt about that given the reviews that I have seen.

Cheers

 

[gordonwh]

PS. I know nothing about the LR3 except what I read and hear - having said that I have been wheeling for some time. How do you know that the wear was "probably" due to suspension geometry being out of alignment?

Re-read what I posted earlier. Then logically consider:

1. There is a known problem with some vehicles where the bush alignment shifts and abnormal tyre wear, particularly on the inner rear wheels, results. It is rectified under particular LR TSB's.

2. If the LR3's air suspension is working correctly, and you don't exceed the towball limit (which is around 350kg), the car _cannot_ drop and cause the rear wheels to "splay out".

3. Ergo, if someone reports rear inner trye wear, it is more than likely caused by the air suspension not operating correctly, or else the afore-mentioned alignment problem.

It's not rocket science

I towed a 1500 kg trailer for approx 7700 kms. I didn't notice any unusual tyre wear due to that trip. I _did_ notice more wear on the inner rears than normal over the course of 20 000 km or so and had the suspension re-aligned and bushes replaced as per the TSB. I've had no issues since.

As to weight - the LR3/D3 is really no heavier than a Patrol or Cruiser - the differences in the published figures are more to do with different weighing methodologies. So I don't think that the LR3's weight is a "special" Achilles Heel - you can aim the same critisism at the Nissan or Toyota.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[ozscott]

Im glad its not rocket science matey, because I simply couldnt comprehend it if it were . Have you towed enough post the bushing issue to know whether the tyre wear problem has now been rectified Gordon?

If it has then I stand corrected and its good to hear!

Cheers

 

[ozscott]

Talking about weight, hHave you had your D3 in deep soft sand - how did it go? I have read in 4X4 Aust Monthly etc that they are OK, but not great because of the weight.

 

[gordonwh]

Have you towed enough post the bushing issue to know whether the tyre wear problem has now been rectified Gordon?

You've got the wrong end of the stick here - as I said - there was _no_ discernable "extra" wear during the 7700 km of towing.

I've only done 3 ~ 4000 kms since, both towing and non-towing. But others have gone much further/longer with no issues.

Talking about weight, hHave you had your D3 in deep soft sand - how did it go? I have read in 4X4 Aust Monthly etc that they are OK, but not great because of the weight.

Yes - the track between Lancellin and Wedge has a notorious "soft spot". I was with 9 other vehicles - one was another D3, the others a mix of Patrols and Hiluxes. We spent quite some time getting up off the beach (bearing in mind there was 10 of us to get through), going down to 8 ~ 10psi for most cars.

Both D3's had 265/70/17 tyres on and the larger size is a real boon in the sand. In my opinion, the small factory rubbers are the greatest hindrance to the D3. With the torque available, we breezed through.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[ozscott]

arrhh..good to hear about the towing and no wear. It seems that the LR3 must be better set up viz wear of rear tyres compared to other independant set ups - I am entirely wrong (this to the first fella that posted) - dont listen to me about this.

Gordon I am glad to hear that the bigger tyres helped in the soft stuff. There is no doubt that the secret to soft sand is high profiles if possible and airing down to get that long forward footprint.

Cheers