Ships of Theseus....
- Thread starter eliaschristeas
- Start date
so, build a custom frame, bolt various pieces on, apply for kit car vin?
heck, buy a galvy frame with no vin, apply for kit car vin and bolt on aftermarket defender pieces?
heck, buy a galvy frame with no vin, apply for kit car vin and bolt on aftermarket defender pieces?
ptschram
Well-known member
The Ship of Thesueus Conundrum has been attributed to Socrates, Plato, and many other early philosophers.
Some folks say it began with a darned smock. If one were to sew new thread, howlong before it became a different article of clothing?
If I built a copy of a ship out of aluminium, would it be the same ship? If I disassembled the ship and put the bits in my barn, do I still own a ship?
As for the multiple postings, damn iPad!
Some folks say it began with a darned smock. If one were to sew new thread, howlong before it became a different article of clothing?
If I built a copy of a ship out of aluminium, would it be the same ship? If I disassembled the ship and put the bits in my barn, do I still own a ship?
As for the multiple postings, damn iPad!
Just an FYI to toss more fuel to the fire:
A couple years ago I rebuilt a totaled 2000 Heep Wrangler here in Maine.
Replaced the frame with a new one and a guy from the state came and inspected the job, asked for my receipts for the frame and body panels and then applied a new VIN to the truck. It was still considered a 2000 wrangler but did not have the same VIN.
The frame IS the truck in Maines eyes and I have also built custom stuff and they DO use the frame as the VIN/model etc. my hybrid series truck is being built on a 95 disco chassis - it will be vin and titled as a 95 disco 1. This is what they told me they wanted right from the state capital.
A couple years ago I rebuilt a totaled 2000 Heep Wrangler here in Maine.
Replaced the frame with a new one and a guy from the state came and inspected the job, asked for my receipts for the frame and body panels and then applied a new VIN to the truck. It was still considered a 2000 wrangler but did not have the same VIN.
The frame IS the truck in Maines eyes and I have also built custom stuff and they DO use the frame as the VIN/model etc. my hybrid series truck is being built on a 95 disco chassis - it will be vin and titled as a 95 disco 1. This is what they told me they wanted right from the state capital.
It reeks - no, it tells - of legislators having zero understanding of the subject of the proposed legislation.knewsom said:
You can see it happening at both state and country levels. Not to derail the thread, but "we have to sign it to understand what's in it" is a classic example.
Back to topic - actually, California is more lenient than many other states when vehicle modifications are concerned. It blows my mind that we don't even have a regular technical inspection.
p m said:
Agreed. Politicians seem to not do their homework, and then ignore the people who did because what they're told is inconvenient. This is a nonpartisan complaint, it's a general one against the idiots in office.
The lack of inspections never seemed like anything to think about until I was in DC and thought about registering the Disco there - until I realized I was going to have to have tech inspections that might require me to actually FIX things that were broken, at which point I promptly mailed off my California Registration Renewal with a check. :victory:
I do wish there was a way to put a Diesel in a Rover here though.
You just have to find one that is from the same class of vehicles (type/GWVR), same year or newer. The MB diesel from a JGC or a Liberty should conform to all EPA requirements.knewsom said:
But it will never pay off.
p m said:
It was my understanding that in California, engines had to be the same make as the vehicle in question, and use the same fuel type as the original, unless the vehicle is older than 25 years.
That I don't think is the rule. Straight from the horse's mouth:knewsom said:
California Air Resources Board said:
ptschram
Well-known member
Roving Beetle said:
I wonder how they'd handle that for insurance purposes as the policy might be affected.
I'm getting ready to galvanize the frame on my 109 and currently it's sitting bare in my backyard.
I've been over nearly every inch of it by hand and I've yet to find any sort of identifying marker on it.
and any identifying marker on the frame would get wiped clean once I galvanized it anyways.
I've been over nearly every inch of it by hand and I've yet to find any sort of identifying marker on it.
and any identifying marker on the frame would get wiped clean once I galvanized it anyways.
knewsom said:
VW TDI, Jeep Liberty/GC diesel.... both are from a "light duty passenger vehicle" so they work as far as Cali is concerned it seems.
HOWEVER on a federal level, who are the ones who really care about EPA etc - they state you can not put a diesel into a gas powered OBD2 ('96 and newer) car/truck unless it was originally offered with the option of the diesel. (Or gas for that matter if there was a diesel only spec'd car?) You can NOT change the fuel source on an OBD2 spec car or truck unless that chassis was federalized and offered here with the different fuel.
So NO Rover '96 or newer is yet allowed to have a diesel swap on a federal level. Period.
p m said:
Wait, that's what i said
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=957326&postcount=18