Should I buy it? Is the price right?

[jammin]

Or am I in for trouble with this one?

I might be close to making a deal on that 1999 D1 SD.

Backstory is here:
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59878

The main related part:

That was a relatively decent truck. The drivers seat was a little more worn than mine, but not terrible. The clear plastic piece (over the letters) in the shifter was broken, and the leather (or whatever) shifter cover was pretty ratty looking. Other than that it looked really good inside. There were some faint scratch marks on the sides like it'd been used off road, but none bad or through the paint (exactly like mine). There was a minor dent on one side, near the bottom of a door. Otherwise good outside. The paint was overall in fair shape. I'm not great at determining rust levels, but I didn't see anything besides maybe a 2 inch patch of surface-only on one spot on the frame. looked like a wire brush and a dab of something would kill that. *snip*

I saw fluid coatings underneath, but no drips. There were a few "hanging drops" around the power steering area that looked like they'd fall given time. A spot to watch and/or ask about. All fairly normal, right?

Motor looked pretty clean, but I'm sure the fact that it's at a dealer has a lot to do with that. The sticker in the window says $5000, but online it's listed as $4000. Still seems high to me.

Upon further inspection, there is definately a PS leak. It's enough to do a little spotting when parked.

Driving... it steers a little differently from mine. A bit looser. Just enough to make me notice and wonder. Maybe still fine.

I can feel a little vibration through the throttle. U-joints? Tires are a little knobbier than mine, but I wouldn't think that'd be it.

Other than that, drives fine. CDL shifting is a little stiff and on the tricky side, but it all does work and nothing pops out.

Skimmed the carfax... it did start life as a lease. Seemed to make regular trips to the dealer for routine service. Same with the second owner, but not at an LR dealer. I'd be the 3rd owner. I didn't see anything about headgaskets or any other major work done. Maybe hasn't needed it. But maybe just in time for me to deal with.

Power windows on the passenger side (front & back) don't work. Rear window wiper & washer don't work. AC doesn't work. (Didn't test mself, their own inspection sheet said so.)

Didn't see any rust in the doors. Didn't dig hard, though. (Under carpets, etc.)

On the motor there is some wetness in the valley in front, and down below it. Didn't smell like coolant or anything, maybe water/sludge left over from cleaning.

Oily underneath. Maybe regular seepage. Maybe not. How does one really tell?

Good news... the high price has been haggled down and is looking more reasonable. Offered $2000 cash, and may actually be able to get it for that, or not too much more.

Before commiting, would take it to the latest mechanic that I've had looking at mine, to give it a look over, including extra attention toward the stuff I've listed here. I'm hoping it's not due for the same series of engine gaskets as my other one, at least for a while.

I dunno, whattaya think? Is $2000-2200 or so a fair price? What would anyone else consider paying for a 1999 D1 SD w/119k miles, as I'm describing here?

 

[jammin]

Checked it out again, wanted a copy of the carfax. The original lease owner bought the truck when the lease was up, so I'd think that meant they didn't abuse it.

The PS leak is worse than it initially looked. Can see a fresh drip from one hose. There is a little fluid pooled under the box.

The vibe seems less than it did the first time. Very slight, but my truck is butter smooth so I notice the difference. Not sure average joe would. Not the tranny or t-case, does it when parked (or neutral) at a standstill. Doesn't vary much, maybe smooths out a little at higher rpms.

Tried out the AC, it worked fine. Not sure why they said it didn't.

Jeep

But I've also spotted a 1993 grand cherokee that has my attention. 180k miles, but it's the 4.0 inline 6 (which I've read is supposedly bulletproof, and good for way more than that). Looks great... 3 inch suspension lift, nice fairly new mt tires (almost half the cost of the truck right there). Very clean and tidy in the engine bay, without looking "cleaned". Headers. Looks well taken care of. No leaks at all anywhere.

Same thing inside. Everything in outstanding condition, and every single thing (it's loaded with options) works. Except the AC isn't very cold. Checking under the nice seat covers revealed one tiny hole (maybe 1/8") in the drivers seat fabric. the rear hatch cover panel is missing, and the carpet was dirty from regular use. Other than that, looked great.

Drove great. Plenty of power, ran smooth. Steering is one the quick side, took a little getting used to. Under hard braking, it pulls slightly to the left. Other than that, no complaints.

Paint is flat black. Obviously not original, but was done well. Combined with the flat black factory plastic and trim, and the black steel wheels (w/street locks), it looks pretty good.

Only one major problem, but it does demand attention... even though the rig was well taken care of, it was obviously setup for offroad use, and not just for show. At some point it took a hit near the rear passenger door. You can't tell from looking, but that door no longer opens... kinda weird really. It probably could be shoved open if I tried, but for practical purposes it is kinda stuck.

Since these are unibody rigs, I wonder what exactly is going on there. I don't care that much about the door, and whatever it was doesn't seem to affect anything else, but still. Makes me wonder.

Either way, this one is $2000 obo. I'm definitely tempted, at least enough to have it checked out by a real mechanic.

 

[FatMcNasty]

do the jeep!

 

[d1driver]

Since you are comparing the 99 D1 to a Jeep on here.....you definitely need the Jeep.

 

[p m]

After my brother's experience with a rear-ended ZJ, I'd stay clear of any ZJ with this history.

D1 - $1800 and it may be a good deal. Traces of coolant anywhere would be a trigger point for me.

 

[gmookher]

I work on my buddys 93 jeep regularly

I suggest you take one apart and put it back together 1st

will change your desire to own one

 

[jammin]

Since you are comparing the 99 D1 to a Jeep on here.....you definitely need the Jeep.

LOL... yeah, I know. I figured that four-letter word might raise a feather or two, and at least one response would say precisely that.

But remember I'm already a happy disco owner, and it wouldn't really be "instead" of a disco, or a replacement for one. I need a backup rig for when my disco is down, which it is now.

That means what I'm really looking for is a cheap replacement for my current backup, a thrashed old toyota truck. Which I'd hate to let go of, but I can't put the kids in it so it is useless to me as a backup.

My current list includes another disco, a 4-runner, or a cherokee. Might consider others. I'm well aware the jeep is no disco, nor would I expect it to be.

I'm just questioning (myself, not anyone else) whether getting another disco (at least one that already has some clear issues) is my best choice as a backup "daily driver" vehicle. I'm nervous about that prospect, at least. Even with the low mileage, the oil and PS leaks, vibration, and t-case stickiness have me paranoid that after 6 months I'll be stuck with another rover needing work and I won't have cleared out the space or time to take care of the first one yet. (Or I'll be stuck in the middle of it, having torn it down already.)

Heck, a toyota corolla could do the job that I really need this for... I just don't want to completely give up going out to play a little, just because I've got my disco taken apart. That's the only reason why I'm considering other trucks.

After my brother's experience with a rear-ended ZJ, I'd stay clear of any ZJ with this history.

D1 - $1800 and it may be a good deal. Traces of coolant anywhere would be a trigger point for me.

Thanks! Yeah, that is one part that I'm thinking about more... the whole stuck door on a unibody issue. I'm looking around to find out more about what that might mean in terms of fixing it (or even "no, can't fix it") but not coming up with anything. Do you have anything you could tell me in that regard? (A pm is fine, if no-one else cares to hear about jeep woes.)

As for the D1, yeah I think I'd probably jump at it for $1800. It'd give me a few bills left over to put toward getting the PS and tie rods fixed. But still want a mech to look at it first. If I end up with another dying disco, I think my wife will kill me dead. Probably flog the corpse some more for good measure. And maybe hang me up for viewing as a warning to others!

Any opinions on the vibration I keep mentioning? Is it nothing/no big deal, or what? Any cool tricks for judging the seriousness vs normalcy of the oil leaks?

I work on my buddys 93 jeep regularly

I suggest you take one apart and put it back together 1st

will change your desire to own one

This is the kind of advice I need to hear, I think. Sure I could ask around on a jeep board, but I'd rather get an honest assesment from non-fanboys, that know a bit about other rigs.

You mean in terms of drivetrain, or the body, or just the whole ball of wax? Which motor is it?

Thanks!

 

[p m]

I don't think a vibration is an issue, more like a bargaining point.

It's a 99, so you won't have a Rotoflex. The U-joints are cheap and easy to replace.

More important are signs of a pattern of "deferred maintenance" - dirty fluids or low levels, leaks, cracked rubber on hoses and serpentine belt, etc.

 

[jammin]

OK, I've spotted another disco, and based on the work done I feel a little better about this one... tell me what you think.

96'Land Rover Discovery SE7.Lifted 4X4 Independent drive train. Fully loaded:Leather, dual power seats,2-moon windos,2-sun roofs, lift kit, over sized tires, new fuel tank/pump, new ECU and other electrical relays, wheel bearings, spindles, head gaskets, brakes, water pump, belt, power steering hose, radiator reservoir, Aluminum engine, brush guard pkg., seats 7, ladder on back to access roof rack, 140,000 miles.

Listing for $2300, said would take $2000.

It's silver. The lift is a simple 3" body, so nothing special there. The windshield is cracked. A windstorm tweaked the hood a little... has new hinges for it.

It's had a full run of typical work already done. Comes with good spare ECU and a few other parts. Sounded like the guy knows his land rovers fairly well, and knew exactly what I was talking about for everything. (Upon hearing I already had one, happily volunteered to go through the laundry list of disco specific stuff I probably wanted the answers to.) All of the fiddly little electrical stuff has been fixed, and works. Moon roofs work, but said to watch out... they sometimes need help closing, and may be getting close to needing either fixed or closed and left alone.

Only 20k more miles than the 1999, but the big pile of anticipated work has already been done. Offered to take it to my mechanic to get checked out, if I cover the gas. It's a 1996, which probably isn't quite as desired as a 99 and is known for its issues.

Hmm. How about this one, vs the other disco, for the price? I already know what y'all would say comparing it to the jeep.

 

[mightymg]

OK, I've spotted another disco, and based on the work done I feel a little better about this one... tell me what you think.



Listing for $2300, said would take $2000.

It's silver. The lift is a simple 3" body, so nothing special there. The windshield is cracked. A windstorm tweaked the hood a little... has new hinges for it.

It's had a full run of typical work already done. Comes with good spare ECU and a few other parts. Sounded like the guy knows his land rovers fairly well, and knew exactly what I was talking about for everything. (Upon hearing I already had one, happily volunteered to go through the laundry list of disco specific stuff I probably wanted the answers to.) All of the fiddly little electrical stuff has been fixed, and works. Moon roofs work, but said to watch out... they sometimes need help closing, and may be getting close to needing either fixed or closed and left alone.

Only 20k more miles than the 1999, but the big pile of anticipated work has already been done. Offered to take it to my mechanic to get checked out, if I cover the gas. It's a 1996, which probably isn't quite as desired as a 99 and is known for its issues.

Hmm. How about this one, vs the other disco, for the price? I already know what y'all would say comparing it to the jeep.

Sweet!! it has a belt and ps hose! those are a must IMHO! :rofl:

 

[jammin]

I don't think a vibration is an issue, more like a bargaining point.

Cool, thanks.

It's a 99, so you won't have a Rotoflex. The U-joints are cheap and easy to replace.

I don't think it's the u-joints, it does it parked and in neutral just revving the motor a bit (not hard).

More important are signs of a pattern of "deferred maintenance" - dirty fluids or low levels, leaks, cracked rubber on hoses and serpentine belt, etc.

Again, cool. Thanks. There is the bad PS leak, and there are definitely oil leaks underneath, just hard to gauge how bad. They aren't dripping that I can tell, but I can see a drop beading up here and there.

One thing... after a test drive I opened up the oil filler tube. It gave off a little bit of... I don't know. Smoke? Didn't smell like anything, but there were definitely wisps of something coming out. I don't remember mine ever doing that, but couldn't remember checking for it. I don't know what that'd be, but it didn't strike me as something it should be doing.

A full top-to-bottom inspection will cost me about $70, so I think I want to be fairly confident about my choice before taking that step.

 

[jammin]

Sweet!! it has a belt and ps hose! those are a must IMHO! :rofl:

Heh, yeah. It's written a little funny. It's a list of "new" stuff, not what it comes with. He's driving to meet me this afternoon. If he could manage that 20 miles without those hoses, belts, brakes, or wheel bearings and it still runs/drives well... I WOULD buy that obviously magic truck on the spot!

 

[FatMcNasty]

well if you get the 96.. want to sell the ladder?

 

[jammin]

No, sorry.

My wife has been wanting us to get one for our other truck, so she can actually reach up there. She's kinda short, and even standing on the bumpers can't get to anything.

I suppose this would be one way to get one.

"Honey, I got that ladder you wanted! Oh, that? That's nothing... just the truck it comes with."

 

[FatMcNasty]

LOL it was worth a try..

Think of it as a $2k ladder with spare car..

 

[jammin]

Saw and drove the 1996. Not completely issue free, but my favorite so far. Silver, with a bluish interior.

Far less leakage than the 1999. A bit of evidence in the PS area, and just oily enough underneath to qualify as a rover that actually has fluids in it. (Kinda greasy, but no drips.)

Could use a new hood latch and adjusting, but works fine as is. Hood and roof starting to get faded patches, otherwise looks pretty good. The windshield had a good sized crack.

Everything inside works, and works well. (Except AC not cold.). Brand new heater/blower motor. Needs a new hood pull handle but the vice grips in its place work great!

Except the headliner (kinda dirty) and a crack under the radio, the interior was outstanding. Way better than mine. The seats looked better than any I've seen.

The tranny felt really good. Barely any clunk at all. The transfer case was good to go, easily shifting and working in all positions, and staying put. Locking while on the move was no problem. (No indicator light, though.)

With one exception, driving was sweet. Ran like a top, and butter smooth. Steering was nice and tight. Suprised it handled just as well as mine, even with the body lift. (Done by previous owner.)

Did all the engine work himself, seemed to know what he was doing and talking about. The results seem to verify that. Has put on about 2000 miles since then. Got the full gasket kit from land rover. Supposedly selling cuz he's out of work and needs the cash, and needs to "get rid of some toys" anyway. Comes with a number of spare parts, and the rave and overhaul manuals on CD. (I already have them, but good to know he had 'em too.)

The one problem, disclosed before driving... A bit of shimmy, between 50 and 55 mph. Only happens sometimes. Did it to me once. Just enough to be annoying and make one think "that will probably get worse, better get it fixed now".

Maybe pre-death wobble? Eek.

So the laundry list to look for that:
Tires & balance
Alignment
Swivel preload
Steering rods/bushings/box/etc
Drivelines (esp front) & joints

Did I miss any?

He's happy to bring it to my mech for inspection as long as I cover for gas.

Anyway, that's the scoop. Sound like a $2000 truck, depending on the shimmy fix?

Thanks!

 

[jammin]

Man, this sucks.

I'm ready to buy that 1996, just need a thumbs up from the wife (she's already said "I think so, it sounds good, I just want to see it first") and the mechanic (mainly to check for the shimmy cause) and I'm ready to hand over the money. Today.

Everything sounded good to go when we last talked Monday night, and we'd scheduled to do both today... he just needed to get back to me to confirm the exact time. Thought we were both at the "verbal agreement" stage.

But I haven't heard from him, or been able to get a hold of him since. I left messages in both voicemail & email. I just called the mech to cancel the tentative "sometime in the afternoon" appointment.

Who knows... maybe he changed his mind. Or maybe he sold it to someone else already.

I hope not, but if so it'd be nice to hear about it, so I can move on pursuing another truck.

Hey, maybe he found this post, saw me temporarily considering a jeep, and decided I didn't deserve a Land Rover anymore. Or the Rover gods themselves are punishing me for sacrilege! :ack:

Oh well...

 

[jammin]

OK, the deal is back on now. If anybody thinks it isn't a good idea, let me know quick cuz we're doing it tomorrow. If I back out it's no biggie... he has another buyer lined up (two actually... a guy in arizona that is moving here in two weeks was told "if it hasn't sold yet by then"), but is honoring my "first dibs".

Turns out he was in the hospital, as his leg had popped out again. (I already knew he had issues there... we'd originally planned to do it today instead of yesterday because he already had to drive to my town for a related appointment anyway).

I guess the Rover gods haven't condemned me yet, they just wanted to see me sweat a little.

 

[Blue]

forget the 96, get the 99 for $2k cash

a power steering leak is not a big deal, might just be hoses. If it needs a new box not a big deal either.

 

[specops1526]

I'll sell you my '04 G4. It's way better than both.