Should I buy it? Is the price right?

[Blue]

just re-read you voluminous posts and that 96 sounds like a piece of shit. Is that a 3" body lift that you said it has? Fuck that crap.

why would you go after a 96 with 140K miles for $2K over a 99 with 120K miles for $2K? The part about "all sorts of work has already been done on the 96" is bullshit - the work has just been done to keep the piece of shit running.

post up some pics of both trucks

 

[jammin]

Thanks for the input... that's why I'm posting.
I figure if I was about to do something really stupid without realizing it, someone would surely pounce on me. And that's a good thing!

The 96 is here: http://salem.craigslist.org/cto/1221814947.html

And the 99 is here: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=263264721

Is that a 3" body lift that you said it has? Fuck that crap.

That was the owners guess, it was done before he got it. I don't think it was 3"... maybe 1 or 2".

I expected to be disappointed by a crappy body lift job. Figured it wouldn't be hard to undo it if the truck was otherwise OK. I was pleasantly suprised to find I barely noticed it at all. Didn't look bad, wasn't too obvious, and couldn't really tell handling-wise either. I could still undo it, but I don't mind the result either.

why would you go after a 96 with 140K miles for $2K over a 99 with 120K miles for $2K? The part about "all sorts of work has already been done on the 96" is bullshit - the work has just been done to keep the piece of shit running.

I totally understand. From the pictures, descriptions, and everything else I would agree it's a no-brainer to go for the 1999. Especially with the reliability issues with the 96.

But having seen and driven both of them, it's a much harder call. (At least for me. Someone who can judge better/knows more might disagree.)


The 96 runs better. Drives better. Handled better. Transmission was better. Transfer case was better. In every mechanical category it appeared, sounded, and felt better. There is that tiny occasional shimmy that needs addressed... but on the other hand the dealership with the 99 wouldn't even let me take the damned thing out anywhere that I could drive that fast to begin with. (For all I know, it might do the same thing. Unlikely, but still.) They insisted I stick to their pre-determined route. The 96 owner let me go wherever I wanted, including some out-of-the way "off-road-ish" places in the area to see how it handled there.

The interior was in far better condition, except maybe the headliner (which wasn't bad). Everything (except AC) worked great.

There is some paint fade on the top surfaces of each. It is worse on the 96. I didn't find any dents on the 96 like I noticed on the 99.

The 96 is being sold by a private party that seemed to know their Rovers pretty well, but needs the cash for some nasty medical bills (which weren't disclosed, or volunteered by any sob story). He was more than happy to help get it checked out by a third party.

Whereas the 99 is coming from a mazda dealership where nobody seems to know a damned thing about the car or its history, and they whined and bitched and moaned about me wanting to get it checked out somewhere else... until I actually walked out on 'em. I had shit to do. Came back a few hours later and they were a little more agreeable, but still were trying to talk me into taking it on the spot.

I like the both the exterior and interior color of the 1996 better, too. Not a legit consideration when comparing, but still true.

The most obvious difference in the pictures (other than the 1996 sitting a bit higher) is the hood gap. (I can confirm the hinge was new, and the latch did need replacing.)

After reading your post, I'm back on the fence, at least. I could go either way. I know the 1999 should be the better truck, but it sure didn't seem that way in person.

You could be right... all the work was done just to make the piece of shit go. On the other hand that seems to be what everyone here does with all D1's. They all go down, and after you fix 'em they go some more. Some for longer than others of course.

My biggest worry about the 99 is that I'm suspicious that it is due soon for the same stuff I need to do to my other rover to get it back on the road again... in which case I'm screwed. It's right at the tail end of the range that I'm always hearing they need done, and I can't find any evidence that it already has been.

The 96 has 20k more miles, but is supposedly over that particular hump. If it was done properly (maybe, maybe not, but I'm thinking it likely was), it should be able to go for a few more years, shouldn't it?

By then I will have another new car, my other disco fixed, and space cleared out to work on that sort of thing myself again.

Tell me what you think, given this (also large) post and the pictures...

Does the bad reputation of the 96 and the current state of this example outweigh the lesser current condition and potential (real or imagined) looming HG repair of this 99?

And thank you for taking the time to help me out here.
I've already been talked out of the jeep, both here and by some folks I know.

I'll sell you my '04 G4. It's way better than both.

I'm sure it is, and I'd love to have it. But if it's in the same price range, I'd be wondering exactly "why".

 

[KyleT]

3" body lift???
Run far away... You will hate that real quick.

Whatever you buy, go in expecting to do HG, all seals and prev maintenance. if you end up not to, consider it a bonus and stick the money aside because it will need it eventually....

 

[jammin]

Whatever you buy, go in expecting to do HG, all seals and prev maintenance. if you end up not to, consider it a bonus and stick the money aside because it will need it eventually....

That's pretty much what I figure... I'm just hoping whatever I get can give me at least a year before it does. Hopefully more, but at least a year.

 

[KyleT]

That's pretty much what I figure... I'm just hoping whatever I get can give me at least a year before it does. Hopefully more, but at least a year.

both rovers I have needed HG after about a month. one I knew, the other on the RR looked fine but ended up needing it also. along with needing a new rad, hoses, hub, air springs and a slew of other things, but I did get a deal on it so i should still come out ahead.

 

[jammin]

Heh... That's pretty much why in the previous thread I was asking if I was crazy to be even considering another rover for this at all.

No one said I was, so here I am. ut:

 

[Blue]

Hmmmmm.....well that's a bit more good info. I would also give more credence to a private seller vs the Mazda used car lot that just wants to dump this old Land Rover hunk off on someone. But body lift is just no good, reeks of junk. Still, I'd go less mileage and 3 model years newer (plus the 99 is the last of the D1 so that has some value as well).

Go back and tell the Mazda moron that he just might sell a car this year if he actually lets you drive the damn thing. If not, forget about him and shop around more.

 

[jammin]

Hmmmmm.....well that's a bit more good info. I would also give more credence to a private seller vs the Mazda used car lot that just wants to dump this old Land Rover hunk off on someone. But body lift is just no good, reeks of junk. Still, I'd go less mileage and 3 model years newer (plus the 99 is the last of the D1 so that has some value as well).

Go back and tell the Mazda moron that he just might sell a car this year if he actually lets you drive the damn thing. If not, forget about him and shop around more.

Thanks, I think I'll do that tonight. If they let me take it for a proper spin, if the leaks don't look any worse, if they will actually go all the way down to $2000, and agree to let my mechanic inspect it first... I just might take it.

When I left off they weren't all the way down to $2000 yet, and were saying $2300-2400 sounded more reasonable to them. I'm thinking they'll go down more.

The leaks have looked worse each time I looked at it. Like it'd been cleaned off really good, but was starting to show again. Yet another reason that one makes me nervous, especially considering how fast they dropped from $5000 all the way down to mid $2000s. Took all of maybe 5 minutes. :rofl:

If they won't deal, I may just get the 96 and hope for the best anyway. A body lift can be lowered or undone, can't it? I'd love to shop around more (have been this whole time), but I need another vehicle yesterday. If I changed my mind, I could maybe try to sell it to that dude from Arizona.

Tech question... could a compression test give a clue to how close the 99 might be getting close to needing a HG? Differences between cylinders, etc? Or do they just go when they go, with little warning?

Thanks!

Why oh why couldn't it be a silver 99 D1 in that condition with the engine work freshly redone, for that price? That'd sure make it a lot easer. Anybody got one (in any color)? Can you deliver it to Oregon? I'll buy it!

 

[jammin]

Ok, after another test drive and round or two of haggling with the
dealer, the 99 is down to $2000 and they will let me sign it out for
the mechanic to check first.

It went something like this (paraphrasing and leaving out lots):

Me: I might still be interested. Let's go for another ride but I want to take it on the freeway and around a little bit.

Salesman: OK

*went for drive*

Me: Ok, the deal is I'm deciding between this truck and another. I'm
worried this one might be due for HG and the other one has been done,
but this year has a better rep and might turn out to be fine. I'm on the fence. How low can you go?

Salesman (typical speech, but this is what he meant): Commit to choosing
this truck first, then we'll talk numbers.

Me: No dice. The mech is costing me money, and if the first one I bring
him gets a thumbs up I'm buying it. If you can't commit to at least
match $2000, there's no point bringing yours in first.

Salesman: I guess the other truck is a better deal, you should get it.

Me: OK, I will. Thanks! *started to walk out*

Salesman: Wait a minute... I'll talk to the boss and see what he says.

Salesman: Ok boss says $2550.

Me: Thanks. See ya later.

Salesman: Hang on, I'll talk to him again.

Salesman: Boss says can't do $2000. Make an offer in between the two.

Me: Nope. $2000.

Salesman: Hang on.

Salesman: Boss says can't do it.

Me: OK, thanks. See you later. *walked out, made it halfway to car*

Salesman: Hey! If you can wait another minute, we're talking to Big Boss. We might be able to work something out.

Me: Ok, fine. I'm gonna wait out here and have a smoke.

Salesman: Big Boss says he'll do it for $2000 right now if you take it tonight.

Me: Sorry. Can't do it. I'm not buying nothin' from nobody till my mechanic checks it out.

Salesman: Hang on.

Salesman: Ok, it's a deal. We'll sign it out to you for the mechanic to see first.

Me: Ok, but I gotta let him know first and they're closed now. I'll call him in the morning and let you know when. Probably in the afternoon. If this truck checks out, I'll take it. If he finds anything I'm not cool with, no sale.

Salesman: OK. See you tomorrow.


Gawd, I hate talking to car salesman. It's a new car dealership even... they just have some used rigs like most do.

Anyway, I did look it over again, pretty close. There's a chunk missing from one of the back inside door handles that I somehow missed before. They'd cleaned up the PS leak. Of course it is still there, they're just trying to hide it.

Heard some funny noises while driving. A high vibration at certain RPMs. They said it was probably a loose heat sheild. There was a funny rumble at times when taking off from being stopped, usually around a turn. PS made more racket than I'd expect sometimes when turning the wheel while stopped. (Working out out a bit.)

Other than that was fine. No problems at freeway speed.


So I've got till tomorrow morning to decide, and either cancel the 96 and bring in the 99, or stay with the 96. I'm all ears, leaning toward the 99 (wife will be bummed there's no ladder or extra seats, oh well) but still nervous about some of the funny noises and the mileage/HG thing.

Thanks!

 

[jammin]

Looking at the carfax for the 99, I saw one place serviced it for a good chunk of its lifetime. (appx 40-100k miles). So I called 'em up, and they told me everything they'd done other than oil changes and routine maint. Sounded good. Wasn't much. A leaking rear diff, axle seals. Fan clutch. Window regulator. Oxygen sensor. One accident reported, no repairs necessary. (Probably that dent down low at the drivers side doors.)

But there's nothing at all on the report from 97k to 119k, when it was offered for sale. 2.5 years and around 20k miles.

We've decided to have it looked at first.

 

[Blue]

You're persistent, I'll certainly give you that. Get the 99 for $2k, unless the pre-inspection finds a major issue. The leaking power steering is about as common as oil leaks on these things.

 

[jammin]

Ok I've got the 99 checked out to me and the shop appt isn't till 2 so I have some time alone with it.

Transfer case beep comes on when shifting it and stays on. Can usually get it to shut up by shifting it around from one setting to another, but there isn't any consistant trick that does it. Luckily I've managed to get it back into unlocked high without a beep after trying a few times.

Every time I lock it, I hear a sound like a mini jackhammer in the rear pass door. It does lock and doesn't seem to hurt anything. Didn't do that before, though.

I smell a coolant-ish smell around the front after driving a while and parking. Don't see any source under the hood though. No smell or exhaust signs in back.

Took it to a lube shop that can check codes and get a better look underneath. The check and service engine and abs lights have been on. Can't touch abs but the brakes work great. Wonder if fuse is pulled and will look. They read a P1317 "manufacturer control ignition system or misfire". Was in there twice, and said "1 pending".

Underneath, no rust at all anywhere except a tiny bit of surface in the very back near the bumper.

Oil leaks weren't bad at all. Most oil underneath looks like blowback from the plug, which was leaking a bit. Nothing at the rear main or front.

I think we'll take it, as soon as the mech does his thing and gives the "all clear".

Thanks!

 

[jammin]

I do hear a little bit of liquid slosh near the passenger footwell when first started, with the first few revs. Does it again after idling a bit.

 

[jammin]

Hmm. Something is going on in the drivetrain.

At pretty much any speed, when I let up on the gas and coast there is a funny sound. A metallic scrape of some sort that is hard to hear but can be felt in the throttle foot too. Sometimes a little louder. This is one of those funny sounds I mentioned. A lot easier to hear on my own.

Kicking into neutral while coasting doesn't change it. Trans fluid is on the low side but not that low. Drivelines & joints were tight as far as I can tell. T-case? Diffs?

Jackhammering sound when locking doors has quit already. Weird.

 

[jammin]

Well, if anyone wants that 99 D1 at power mazda in salem, they are welcome to it. Be prepared for a lot of work.

Between the lube joint and the mech, all of the leaks started springing to life. At first it was just "hey, I didn't see that one before". Then it was "whoah".

I was having second thoughts... Then the mech picked it up on the lift, took one look, and said "holy shit". (This is a guy that has seen my truck plenty of times.). I got under there too, oil was seeping from just about everywhere, all fresh. We all agreed it was way worse than the truck I already had.

After some more looking, determined it either needed a HG or was really close. Same for the others... Valve covers, valley, front & rear main, oil pan. The works. The PS was worse... Every hose and probably the box too. Some of the seals around the right front hub/joints were shot. Maybe the source of the noise I was hearing. And so on...

Didn't get as far as looking into anything more, or in more detail. Already decided "no" and pulled it down. They didn't charge me.

They thought the dealer must have been cleaning it up regularly, trying to hide the leaks and get rid of it.

Took it to the dealer and told 'em to keep it. Ended up walking home. (Only a mile, not too bad.)

Maybe a good deal for someone else, but not for me right now.

The good news is that I can still get the 96. He'd decided to hold it till the end of the day before offering it to the other guy. Had a feeling I might be back.

Am gonna check that one now...

 

[jammin]

Checked it out, and bit. Made sense to me to make it a separate thread:

http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?p=694977