Hello all, pulled off the second head on my 00 disco today, and noticed that the third sleeve back on the passenger's side is actually sticking out above the block a mm or 2...i assumed it was the cause of the awful tapping noise the engine made but I haven't heard about the liners moving up before. Before I do anything else, I was curious to know how that is possible if the head is in the way.
Slipped sleeve sticking out above block
- Thread starter sholden7
- Start date
You have a very rare occurance right there - normally the liners end up in the "normal" location...
The liners moving up and down are 100% the cause of the noise. You'll also have deep grooved in the firing rings on the HG - hopefully they didn't punch though and into the head... The 2003/2004 motors are usually the worse offenders for the liners moving, but I guess anything is possible.
What I don't know, is how best to fix this.... The liners start moving at no less than 150 degrees, so you need to either heat the block and perhaps use a little force to press it back, or another option is to just trim the top off the liner...
Personally, I'd find a way to get the liner back down, then get them pinned so they don't move again.
A blowtorch is not going to cut it though, you need something that can put heat all around the cylinder equally. I think the best way is to make a plate with a hose attached to cover the waterways in the block. Then curculate hot water through the bottom hose and out of the plates, then back into the hose. An extreme would be a domestic hot water tank and pump, but an electric kettle and a small 12v pump might do it, but will take a long time.
These links might be of interest.
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74254
http://landroverforums.com/forum/general-tech-help-8/how-i-fixed-my-land-rover-tick-slipped-sleeve-48770/
The liners moving up and down are 100% the cause of the noise. You'll also have deep grooved in the firing rings on the HG - hopefully they didn't punch though and into the head... The 2003/2004 motors are usually the worse offenders for the liners moving, but I guess anything is possible.
What I don't know, is how best to fix this.... The liners start moving at no less than 150 degrees, so you need to either heat the block and perhaps use a little force to press it back, or another option is to just trim the top off the liner...
Personally, I'd find a way to get the liner back down, then get them pinned so they don't move again.
A blowtorch is not going to cut it though, you need something that can put heat all around the cylinder equally. I think the best way is to make a plate with a hose attached to cover the waterways in the block. Then curculate hot water through the bottom hose and out of the plates, then back into the hose. An extreme would be a domestic hot water tank and pump, but an electric kettle and a small 12v pump might do it, but will take a long time.
These links might be of interest.
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74254
http://landroverforums.com/forum/general-tech-help-8/how-i-fixed-my-land-rover-tick-slipped-sleeve-48770/
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Interesting. I'm also planning on talking to some machine shops to see if they will resleeve it. The reason it wasn't in normal position is because that cylinder inside it was at the top of its revolution when the engine was shut off. Quite lucky as it made it very obvious what the problem was.
I wouldn't think about getting the liner back in place and re-using it. Get a set of top-hat liners in there, you'll rarely effect a complete repair once the liner has started to move and reduced its friction fit in the block.
The liners are shrink fitted, that is they are cooled well below freezing point and then pushed into place, where they expand and grip the block material. They are pressed down to a machined stop and then the top deck is machined to get all the top faces level.
As the block expands faster than the liner, once you've lost the inteference fit, the liner is free to move about at will.
Possibly you could try Loctite on it, but if it were my engine, I'd got for top hat liners and do the job properly.
Peter
The liners are shrink fitted, that is they are cooled well below freezing point and then pushed into place, where they expand and grip the block material. They are pressed down to a machined stop and then the top deck is machined to get all the top faces level.
As the block expands faster than the liner, once you've lost the inteference fit, the liner is free to move about at will.
Possibly you could try Loctite on it, but if it were my engine, I'd got for top hat liners and do the job properly.
Peter
ptschram
Well-known member
Even if you reline the block, there is a nearly 100% chance that there are cracks behind the liner in the block proper.
I am hearing more and more testimonials from folks who have bought re-sleeved blocks, only to find that they begin to overheat immediately upon reaching operating temperature.
Very few machine shops have the experience with these engines to know to even look for such cracks, much less how to repair them.
If this block is so bad that the liner movement is so obvious, I'm certain the block has been compromised.
I am hearing more and more testimonials from folks who have bought re-sleeved blocks, only to find that they begin to overheat immediately upon reaching operating temperature.
Very few machine shops have the experience with these engines to know to even look for such cracks, much less how to repair them.
If this block is so bad that the liner movement is so obvious, I'm certain the block has been compromised.
ptschram said:
Good point.
OP: Are you doing the head gaskets because it was using/losing water? If so unless there is an obvious water leak elsewhere, it might well be from this cylinder. Does the piston / liner / combustion chamber look any cleaner than the others?
If your motor wasn't using any water, then pinning might be a solution that doesn't entail engine removal. If it was, I'd start looking for a replacement engine.
I'd look @ replacing the block, you'd be foolish to try to reuse it. Give Drillbit or Will a call.
ptschram
Well-known member
singingcamel said:
While that is certainly a reasonable path, removing the liners, pressure testing the block and wedling up any holes and re-sleeving is probably the BEST route to follow.
turbodave said:
Its pretty common. I've done headgaskets on a couple that have had the liner moved up or down, and had no ill effect, other than the motor knock. One a co-worker found didn't even knock.
Welding is a good idea, you'll probably have to pull the engine to do so ,in order to weld and mill.
Then find someone good enough to top hat it..good luck there.
I'd still pull and replace.
Then find someone good enough to top hat it..good luck there.
I'd still pull and replace.
ptschram
Well-known member
Wow haha. The engine hadn't really been using coolant or doing anything untoward except tapping. When I found fresh coolant under the valve covers however, I figured I'd better dig deeper. The head gasket is clearly compromised. And unless I could find a block really cheap, that isn't much of an option because this particular disco I bought to fix and sell. I'm only 1450 in so far including the purchase price but because there's so many miles on it (174k) I don't have a lot of wiggle room. At this point I'd say the engine is probably coming all the way out. Where or how does one get a block tested for cracks?
P.S. when I said I would look into having it resleeved I had meant with a new liner.
P.S. when I said I would look into having it resleeved I had meant with a new liner.
If your just looking to flip it why not pick up a cheap motor off of one of the vendors here put it in and move on?
How cheap are we talking? Could probably only get 2500 out of the thing even if it was in great shape.ArmyRover said:
Contact the parts folks and see who has something at price you like.
Will Tillery
PTSchram
Drilbit (Marty)
Paul Grant
A quick look around will give you contact info for all of them.
Will Tillery
PTSchram
Drilbit (Marty)
Paul Grant
A quick look around will give you contact info for all of them.
I am in the process of replacing my head gaskets. I pulled the driver side head and nearly shit myself when I noticed that the #3 sleeve is sticking up above the face of the block. I immediately jumped on here convinced that everyone would call bullshit when I described what I found. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to find a sleeve sticking up like that.
Sholden- have you had any luck with getting the sleeve back in place? I feel very confident that I don't have a cracked block (at least on that side) because the pistons have not been "steam cleaned". I'll now about the other side tomorrow.
Sholden- have you had any luck with getting the sleeve back in place? I feel very confident that I don't have a cracked block (at least on that side) because the pistons have not been "steam cleaned". I'll now about the other side tomorrow.