Started, quit, and the mystery began...

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,366
84
minnesota
So... you know that moment when things start unravel a bit? Somehow, I don’t think this fuel pump was, “replaced a year or two ago.”
Yikes. Yeah, I've seen a couple of pumps that look like that. You live in road salt country?

Sadly, if you have AEL, yes you need the $360 pump.

Probably need a new locking ring, but clean that one up first before you get a new one.

Looks like you will also need to replace the quick-connectors on the fuel lines.

You can get Dorman ones that fit from O'reilly.

It looks like this:
800-120-007.jpg

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...-solutions-fuel-line-connector/800120/4257375

This may be the right one, but apologies as I did this 8 years ago and can't remember the size or part #.
 
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Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah... Western PA is definitely salt-country. It sucks!

$360 it is. You just seriously saved me on the quick release fittings!!! I’ve been turning over the internet trying to find those!!! Thank you! Do you think there is enough length on the rubber hoses that, if I cut the existing quick releases off, I can fudge the new ones on, clamp them down, and be on my way? Or do I need to run new flexible tubing all the way back to where it meets the hard line? I’m in the apartment parking lot, and I’d REALLY like to not have to drop the tank...

In another plot twist, I bridged the inertia switch, and the motor caught. Lousy fuel pressure and it didn’t stay running, but it very definitely caught. So I’m going to order a new inertia switch while I’m on Atlantic British and swap it out. Good lord what a mess this has become!

Looking at that fuel tank locking ring, and remembering my old Grand Wagoneer, I’m thinking I may need a strap wrench to break it free... any thoughts or best practices on that front?
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,366
84
minnesota
Do you think there is enough length on the rubber hoses that, if I cut the existing quick releases off, I can fudge the new ones on, clamp them down, and be on my way?
There isn't a ton of extra slack after you cut the old ones off, but there should be just enough.

I repaired mine in exactly that way.

Looking at that fuel tank locking ring, and remembering my old Grand Wagoneer, I’m thinking I may need a strap wrench to break it free... any thoughts or best practices on that front?
Usual way is to tap around counterclockwise with a flathead screwdriver and hammer, but a strap wrench might work.
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,366
84
minnesota
You may want to replace the fuel filter as well. It is under the rear passenger wheel/door area.

Be warned tho, if your pump looks like that, the filter fittings are gonna be rusted to shit as well.

I think I got some Dorman threaded fittings for that too, but you can substitute a filter that clamps into the existing hoses.

https://www.roverparts.com/filters/fuel-filters/8989/
 

Lake_Bueller

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2004
2,010
39
53
Beloit, WI
It's been a long time since I've done a fuel pump in a D1. But if you're handy and cheap (like me), you could do the GM pump replacement. If I remember correctly, its a replacement of the internal parts only. The last time I did it, the truck was still running strong after 10 years.
 

joneschris

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2019
47
6
The Woodlands, TX
Yeah... Western PA is definitely salt-country. It sucks!

$360 it is. You just seriously saved me on the quick release fittings!!! I’ve been turning over the internet trying to find those!!! Thank you! Do you think there is enough length on the rubber hoses that, if I cut the existing quick releases off, I can fudge the new ones on, clamp them down, and be on my way? Or do I need to run new flexible tubing all the way back to where it meets the hard line? I’m in the apartment parking lot, and I’d REALLY like to not have to drop the tank...

In another plot twist, I bridged the inertia switch, and the motor caught. Lousy fuel pressure and it didn’t stay running, but it very definitely caught. So I’m going to order a new inertia switch while I’m on Atlantic British and swap it out. Good lord what a mess this has become!

Looking at that fuel tank locking ring, and remembering my old Grand Wagoneer, I’m thinking I may need a strap wrench to break it free... any thoughts or best practices on that front?
I would do some researching on the fuel pump. Im non ael but I was able to use a chevy fuel pump ($23)
 

Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
Great input all, and very much appreciated. Where we stand today: I’ve got an order in from Atlantic British for an AEL-compatible fuel pump/sender kit (includes the gasket), as well as a fuel pump locking ring (I’m under no illusion that the current rusted mess is going to be able to be reused) and an inertia switch. (See my last post for reasoning on that.) There are a few AEL-pumps available new from Amazon for significantly less than the AB unit ($199 vs $360) but the reviews on them aren’t great, and they ship from mainland China, which given the current shipping climate seems a recipe for delays, so I’m biting the bullet and buying the spendy one.

I’m headed to O’Reilly’s now to get quick disconnects and hoseclamps as suggested by pinkytoe, and then we wait for the shipment to arrive. In the meantime, the fuel pump, fittings and locking ring are soaking in PB Blaster, in an attempt to make the removal process less heinous. Fingers crossed.

I have to go back to work over the weekend, but that should give ample time for PB Blaster and the USPS to do their work, and hopefully I can get stuck into this on Tuesday. I’ll try to take photos and document as best I can!
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,366
84
minnesota
fuel pump locking ring (I’m under no illusion that the current rusted mess is going to be able to be reused)
You (or anyone else in this scenario) might actually be surprised at how much good metal is still left on that locking ring after wire-wheeling and naval jelly.

The 2 times I have done this, I thought I would definitely need to replace the ring, but was able to clean up & reuse.

In the meantime, the fuel pump, fittings and locking ring are soaking in PB Blaster, in an attempt to make the removal process less heinous. Fingers crossed.
The ring screws onto the plastic tank, so PB is only so helpful.

With all that corrosion, I wouldn't bother trying to get the fittings off the intended way. Just cut them off (but keep as much hose as you can!).
 

Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
I hope you're right, regarding the locking ring! I'll break out a wire brush when it comes off and see what there is to see. Having the new one as a backup means that the project can go forward quickly if, in fact, the old one isn't up to the task.

Yeah, those fittings will be coming off with a knife/hacksaw. I got the Dorman ones shipped in from O'Reilly's the other day, along with some high-pressure hose clamps. I'm *hoping* to get home tomorrow afternoon, so we should be able to kick it off then.

Yeah... I still have the habits from my days with my old Wagoneer. PB Blaster is like Frank's Red-hot... "I put that shit on everything!"
 

donniefitz2

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2020
45
17
Scottsdale, AZ
Don't compromise the fuel pump. Someone put a new fuel pump in mine (before I bought it). Now, my truck thinks it's out of gas when it still has 6 gallons in the tank. Apparently it's a common problem with aftermarket pumps.

Here's a thread about it: https://www.landroversonly.com/threads/running-out-of-gas-with-6-gallons-left.147265/

I was told to get a Bosch pump and Rock Auto has them pretty cheap. I've just been making sure I don't go below a quarter of a tank until I get around to putting a new pump in.
 

best4x4

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2015
475
23
Beaumont, TX
Sure sounds like a CPS or bad wiring to the CKPS. Engine will not run without either of those. When you turn the key to position II you should hear the fuel pump. If you hear nothing have someone turn the key while under it to verify. If no sound check fuel pump relay under the hood, or wiring behind left rear tire. If you hear a pump = investigate CPS/CKPS.
 

Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
Sure sounds like a CPS or bad wiring to the CKPS. Engine will not run without either of those. When you turn the key to position II you should hear the fuel pump. If you hear nothing have someone turn the key while under it to verify. If no sound check fuel pump relay under the hood, or wiring behind left rear tire. If you hear a pump = investigate CPS/CKPS.
Thanks, best4x4, I appreciate the input! There is no sound from the pump in position II, for sure. Based on the condition of the pump itself, we're going to replace that, and then continue troubleshooting from there. Next up will be the relay/wiring for sure.

I agree with you Donnie - a fuel pump is too critical of a part to scrimp on! Atlantic British got us the new pump in good time, and it looks to be a quality unit.
 

Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
Progress report!

The shipment from Atlantic British arrived in good time, and I made my commute home, so I was able to dig into the Disco last night before it got too dark. (Wish I'd thought to park under a streetlight!) As I mentioned, the entire assembly has been swimming in PB Blaster for the last four days, in hopes of loosening things up... mixed results on that front, as you'll see. First things first, I dove in with a wire-brush to get all the rust-scale, road-grime, and other detritus out of the area. I don't want it in my fuel tank. Actually cleaned up pretty well, and the PB Blaster did a good job of kinda gluing all the grime together which made for easy removal. Cleaned up pump and ring.jpg

Next up, I took pinkytoe's suggestion on trying to drift the ring loose with a hammer and screwdriver. After a few taps, and the screwdriver started moving! Just... not because the ring was turning. Attempting to turn with hammer:screwdriver.jpg
In full ex-Jeep owner mode, I decided my best bet was to break the ring, spread it, and pull it off that way. As corroded as it was, it wasn't hard.
Ring finally removed.jpg

What remained.jpg

By now it was getting too dark to see clearly, so I cleaned up, and marked the fuel hoses for flow direction in preparation for cutting them free of the pump. It's been sluicing rain all day, so I've not been able to get anything done, but the forecast has it clearing up a bit tomorrow. Hopefully I can get this wrapped up and move on with the trouble-shooting then. Fingers crossed that with the new pump installed, the old war horse snorts back to life! But its a 22-year-old Land Rover, and its 2020... my hopes aren't high. :confused::ROFLMAO:

'Til then...
 
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pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,366
84
minnesota
Test fit the Dorman fittings on the new pump before you clamp them to the hose.

Probably want to make sure they are the right size ;)
 
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Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
We're gettin' there!

Weather was great yesterday, so I bit the bullet and dug into the fuel pump replacement. First things first, cut those fuel lines off of the cancerous "quick releases." First slice with the knife, and the whole thing breaks free of the pump housing. Sure made cutting the union off a lot easier! Same story with the second union - it snaps off the pump housing outlet pipe with the slightest pressure. I'm somewhat surprised that this thing hadn't split wide open just going down the road. 1.jpg

The Dorman connectors work into the fuel lines fairly well. Pinkytoe is right - there isn't much extra line left when you cut the union off, but there's enough. A little WD-40 helps the connector move a bit more easily, especially on the return line, which is bone-dry. After some persuasion and some swearing, both connectors are on, clamped, and marked for direction. Now to pull the pump. And here is where things get a bit sticky. The Discovery shop manual very clearly states that the removal technique for the fuel pump is to work a screwdriver under the lip of the fuel pump and lever the unit free. I'm here to tell you that doing so will accomplish two things - your pump housing will crack, and you'll dent/crease the floorpan, as there is nowhere else to use as a fulcrum for the screwdriver. The pump gasket seal is no joke. This thing was in there! The shop manual very explicitly states NOT to pull or lever on any other portion of the pump other than the rim... But that little plastic bracket/brace going between the inlet and outlet ports looks pretty stout, and if I keep levering per the manual, I'm going to be left with a pile of little plastic bits, a dented up floorpan, and not much else. So, with little to lose, I got a strap and threaded it through the bracket. 2.jpg
That bracket is STOUT. I can tell you that because to get the sucker out, I ended up in the back of that truck, arms locked out, doing a damn squat to pull it free of the fuel tank. The first yank lifted the edges. A little prying and a second squat pulled it up what I assumed was most of the way. And the final pull brought the whole assembly and a healthy splash of fuel up and out of the tank. There is a more graceful way to effect this, I am sure.
3.jpg
A quick run to Home Despot got me a rattle siphon and gas can, so I was able to lower the level in the fuel tank by a few gallons to ensure that refitting the new pump wouldn't cause the same fuel-bath I'd just gotten. (The truck only had 3/4 of a tank in it. It should have been fine... But it broke down while parked on an incline... doh!)

The new pump looks... well... 22 years newer than the old one, which is encouraging. The provided fuel tank gasket from Atlantic British fit perfectly into place. Strangely (to me) the shop manual doesn't call for any sort of lubrication to help the pump housing slide into the tank seal. Because of that, it took some pressure to get it to seat properly. No trouble though - I was able to simply press down around the rim with my body weight (and occasionally a wooden hammer handle) and eventually worked it down flush to the tank. 4.jpg

The new locking ring from AB bears a BMW part-number and seems to be a pretty well made piece. It threaded on smoothly after a try or two, and i was able to snug it down hand tight. Lacking Land Rover tool #19-009, I padded a screwdriver and drifted the ring a quarter-turn beyond hand tight. I don't think it'll be working free. It took a little jujitsu, but the Dorman connectors weren't too hard to slide onto the pump nipples, and the plugs and vacuum vent line fit perfectly. Mission accomplished!
5.jpg

I'm considering flooding the whole area with grease to prevent water/grime from doing the same number to this assembly that it did to the last one. It'll suck to remove if I need to service the pump... but it won't suck as much as dealing with all that rust again... Or am I being paranoid?

Unfortunately, I was out of time and daylight to keep messing with it, and so I didn't have a chance to check if the pump powered up with the key in position II. Mrs. Spark6 is taking a long lunch break today to be my shop-helper, so hopefully I'll know soon. In the meantime, I'm going to swap the inertia switch for the new one. Fingers crossed, I'll have a positive update this afternoon! If not, then I'll turn my attention to the Fuel Pump Relay and go from there. Whatever the case, clearly the old pump needed to go. I've seen a lot of corroded, nasty stuff on cars over the years, but that was one of the worst.
 

Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
Welp, update: truck still doesn’t start. :mad: I hooked my GTI up to jump it, brought wifey out on her lunch break, and got no noise from the pump at ignition switch position II. On a fool errand, we cranked her a few times... cranked away, but didn’t so much as sneeze. I checked fuel pressure at the rail, and got a bit of dribble, which turned out to be a red herring. After several more cranking attempts, there is no fuel at the valve. Onward, I suppose. Time to investigate the fuel pump relay and the wiring to it. I ABHOR chasing wires.:sick:
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,366
84
minnesota
Time to investigate the fuel pump relay and the wiring to it. I ABHOR chasing wires.:sick:
The electrical manual will be pretty handy here. Multimeter probably a big help too.

Did you put 12 volts straight to the pump to make sure it works?

Make sure none of the connector pins that you reconnected have backed out. That happened to me on the fuel pump connector under the driver's rear wheel.
 
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Spark6

Active member
Oct 31, 2020
27
3
Pittsburgh, PA
Okay. I just got back from several days of work, and found the new FPR from Atlantic British had arrived! Good stuff. Plugged it in, hooked went to position II a few times, checked the fuel rail. Had a spurt of fuel - Huzzah! Cranked her up, and got a snort from the motor. Followed by nothing. Dry crank after dry crank after dry crank. Back to the rail. No more fuel. WTF?!? Did I just blow a brand new fuel pump relay somehow?!? I’ve been going through the RAVE electrical diagrams, and I’ll be honest, it’s Greek to me. I haven’t yet tried hooking power directly to the pump, as I can’t figure out which pins are power, etc. Boy is this discouraging. Back to the books, and hopefully I’ll find something soon.