Swiftboat Pinheads

utahdog2003

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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North Florida
The swiftboat dudes are at it again in Florida...and their commercial (the one where they, one by one, make points about Kerry not deserving Purple Hearts...etc) makes me wonder: If a bunch of veterans get together and bash a fellow veteran for not really deserving his commendations for whatever reason, doesn't that pretty much throw an ugly shadow over all awards presented by the military/government? How can they suggest that the Purple Heart, et al are awarded in such an under-clarified, namby-pamby method that would allow a man to justify his own awards, without calling into question the validity of the justification for all of them ever awarded?

I expected a truck-load of misinformation from both sides (it is November, after all) but this is just plain crap. I would like to think, that when a veteran dons his medals and participates in a parade, that we aren't teaching our kids that "well, yeah. He may have lots of those, but I bet some of them aren't really deserved". As for what a vet does with his medals after he leaves service, that's his business. Some feel the need to frame them and display them above their side tables, as my grandfather did. Some feel the need to chuck them around in protest (a pretty stupid thing to do if you ask me, but whatever). Still, I think the military, as an establishment on the whole, has a handle on how the things are given. And If they don't? If they just hand these things out like safety-pins? Then they should put a stop to the medals all together.

It should never be suggested that an award was given under false or exagerated circumstances. I believe that the military has a strong sense of the importance of rewarding the sacrifice to service our men and women give to protect us, and it makes me sick to think that, for political gains, these old farts are taking this process into question. I don't give a shit if they don't like the man. I don't give a shit if they think he would be a miserable president. I don't give a shit if You think he would be a miserable president. Nobody should question the decorations of a veteran.
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
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Colorado
Even one who met with the enemy, lied before congress about supposed attrocities, was Dishonorably Discharged and has his picture hanging in North Vietnam museum as one who helped them? Why did Kerry serve only a 4 month tour on the swift boats, the shortest of ALL other members. It wasn't his medals. As a veteran I can see their point, Kerry is unfit to be CIC.

The SBVT have every right to question Kerry through the media since he won't release his records and refuses to meet with them.
 
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Greg P

Guest
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the bigger arguement being made against Kerry and his medals is the fact that he asked for them, or at least for one of them. My Grandfather earned a purple heart medal during World War II in the Soloman Islands. He was with a platoon that was supposed to take an island that had only a minimal amount of Japanese inhabitants according to intel. The intel was wrong, and the island turned out to be a Japanese stronghold. My Grandfathers platoon leader was killed during the initial invasion and somehow my Grandfather who was an E7 Staff Sargent in the Army at the time wound up being the highest ranking man left alive.

They dug in, and stayed the course. Many of them died and got wounded. My Grandfather was hit with a motor fragment that removed a large portion of his scull. The military doctors indicated he wouldn't live long. They tried an experiemental surgury at the time and recreated the front part of his scull with a metal plate. He spent over 1 full year in the hospital recovering.

The US troops and my Grandfathers platoon went on to secure the island, and my Grandfather went on to live to be 87 years old. Would have been 88 years old this November. During my entire life, and I'm 33 years old now, I never once heard my Grandfather mention his experience or brag about his medal. During his last few years alive, I managed to get him to tell me the story about what happened to cause his injury. He also purchased a "purple heart" tag for his car in the last few years of his life because he was proud of what his generation did for the country to keep us all safe, and because my Mom and her sister encouraged him to get it.

Don't get me wrong, my Grandfather was proud of his service, and proud of that medal, but he didn't feel compelled to tell anyone about it. He would have been sick about how Kerry has paraded his medals and war veteran shit on TV. For christs sake, he was only there for 4 months.........

I also believe I heard somewhere that you could get a discharge from service upon earning 3 purple hearts during Vietnam. If that is true, I'm sure that wouldn't have had anything to do with Kerry's request for another purple heart......................

Kerry is telling you guys just what you want to hear. If the political need changes tomorrow his stance will change tomorrow.
 

utahdog2003

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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North Florida
MarkP said:
Even one who met with the enemy, lied before congress about supposed attrocities, was Dishonorably Discharged and has his picture hanging in North Vietnam museum as one who helped them? Why did Kerry serve only a 4 month tour on the swift boats, the shortest of ALL other members. It wasn't his medals. As a veteran I can see their point, Kerry is unfit to be CIC.

The SBVT have every right to question Kerry through the media since he won't release his records and refuses to meet with them.

what a load of horseshit. I want to see you document that worthles propoganda...and don't reference The India Times again.

Idiots
 

utahdog2003

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
1,842
0
North Florida
[QUOTE
I also believe I heard somewhere that you could get a discharge from service upon earning 3 purple hearts during Vietnam. If that is true, I'm sure that wouldn't have had anything to do with Kerry's request for another purple heart......................
[/QUOTE]


Again, the military would be the ones managing such a program, and if they took every hangnail and splinter as an injury, then there wouldn't have been anybody there longer than 3 days, so I'm sure the standard for "injury" would be a little more strict than that.


cool story about your grandfather...makes you want for a simpler time, doesn't it?
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,080
885
AZ
utahdog2003 said:
what a load of horseshit. I want to see you document that worthles propoganda...and don't reference The India Times again.

Idiots

utahdog2003 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkP
Enjoy - http://www.wintersoldier.com

yeah...THERE'S an unbiased source for "real news". Even Rupert Murdoch wouldn't touch that moose drool with a 10 foot cattle-prod.

LOL....you have to open your eyes before you can see, there, utahdog. Everything that MarkP noted is generally accepted, undisputed knowledge. The one big point you're missing in your opening post is the fact that the Vets are not questioning the spirit of the medals or the validity of other vet's medals; they are simply questioning the man (Kerry). Did Kerry really create fictitious wounds & scenarios that ended in his requests for medals so that he could go home and protest sooner? Only Kerry knows, and he's not talking for some reason. If Kerry won't come clean, what other course is there to find out the truth? Maybe go over all the facts with the people who were actually there and watched Kerry literally shoot himself in the ass? Maybe talk to the doctors that treated Kerry's "war wounds"? LOL, the doctors report that Kerry had a scratch that was treated with a band-aid. For that Kerry wanted a Purple Heart. What do you think Greg P's grandfather & his fellow soldiers would make of that? Face it, utahdog, Kerry's forced stint in Vietnam was as short as possible by Kerry's design. Since he had to go, he made the best of it with his movie camera and got himself 3 Purple Hearts in record time so that he could get his ass out of there. Kerry is nothing more than a cheap opportunist, in both his personal and public life. The man is a stinking pile of shit.
 
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Snwbord24

Guest
I think my Dad was over there for about as long as Kerry was. My dad also has a purple heart from Vietnam. Of course he took a hand grenade for his best friend over there and spent almost a year in the hospital afterwards. His left thigh and forearm are missing almost 50% of the muscle. He was disabled (although you can't tell by the things he still does) for life and received one purple heart. I don't see Kerry with so much as a scratch and he's got 3? He was dishonorably discharged and striped of his medals then once he was in the Senate it was changed to honorable and was given his medals back for political reasons. I just can't trust a guy like that, the medals (or whatever he's calling them now) weren't even his at the time to throw over that fence.
 
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cmondieyoung

Guest
So far, all of you guys have missed the point -- taking it as an opportunity to bash Kerry.

I agree, utahdog, and it's an issue a bit too complex in its philosophy and ramifications to be easily broached.

As referring to my recent post in a different thread, society is hell-bent on raping soldiers of their honor, pride, and conviction to service. You're absolutely right in your submission that the slander Kerry is going through right now sets a dangerous precedent for ANY decorated soldier.

How dare we call into question such things.

I don't give a FUCK what Kerry did or did not do--the veterans who lambast him are nothing but drooling fucking puppets--no better than the hippies who spat on returning soldiers.

I spit on THEIR "service" to this country. :mad:
 
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Snwbord24

Guest
I'm not missing the point at all, I'm not using it to bash Kerry. I don't trust him so I won't vote for him. If the same thing was true for Bush I wouldn't trust him.

Even if he did "earn" those purple hearts why was he given a dishonorable discharge? There's something fishy going on there and I'm calling bullshit with my vote.

Have you ever served your country? If you haven't then what right do you have to criticize in that arena?
 
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Greg P

Guest
I don't think we've missed the point. The fact is, that someone possibly and falsely earned their medals. Questioning that person doesn't open question to all veterans.

If someone is basing their reasoning for support on questionable service, shouldn't it be reason for review? I didn't say in my post that I did or didn't vote democrat. I simply indicated that I think it is wrong to toot your own horn when it comes to honor and service to ones country. A true war hero doesn't tell people he is a war hero. By definition of the word, a hero is someone that the people call a hero, not the individual.

Everything that Kerry has done during his life has been questionable. He is a hard man to follow, and even if you want to follow him, he has so many things about his past that haunt him to no end.

No matter what you say about Bush or about Kerry, the same can be said about another leader from the opposite party at some point in history. But, I have sticking issues with soldiers requesting a medal on their own. That is what degrades the honor of the medal. The honor and medal should be bestowed upon the soldier based on meritt by another person.

Asking for glory and recognition is what Kerry has been doing all his life. Asking for the medal degrades the honor for the other soldiers that earned it. If you don't see that John Kerry, with his actions has degraded the honor in the medal bestowed upon my Grandfather that earned the medal, then you are as big of a moron as he is.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
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cmondieyoung said:
So far, all of you guys have missed the point -- taking it as an opportunity to bash Kerry.

I agree, utahdog, and it's an issue a bit too complex in its philosophy and ramifications to be easily broached.

As referring to my recent post in a different thread, society is hell-bent on raping soldiers of their honor, pride, and conviction to service. You're absolutely right in your submission that the slander Kerry is going through right now sets a dangerous precedent for ANY decorated soldier.

How dare we call into question such things.

I don't give a FUCK what Kerry did or did not do--the veterans who lambast him are nothing but drooling fucking puppets--no better than the hippies who spat on returning soldiers.
I spit on THEIR "service" to this country. :mad:

LOL man....what the fuck do you think Kerry is?

and this is great too:
So far, all of you guys have missed the point -- taking it as an opportunity to bash Kerry.

I agree, utahdog, and it's an issue a bit too complex in its philosophy and ramifications to be easily broached.


typical liberal democratic thinking.....if people don't agree with your topic, they must not understand it. Wrong - no one here has missed utahdog's point, we are just responding to his post.

utah's point is that questioning the awarding of Kerry's medals is a bad thing because it calls all warded medals into question and disparages all decorated soldiers. Please tell me if I missed the point.

My point, and I think Greg & Mark & Shane are with me here, is that no one is attacking all decorated soldiers, it is Kerry & Kerry alone that is the subject of discussion here.
 
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antichrist

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2004
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Atlanta, GA
I certainly wonder about Kerry's service record, but the fact of the matter is, he did volunteer for service in Vietnam. Whether he did it for political gain, to run away from something, or whatever nefarious reason someone can come up with, he did go there, where there was a fairly good chance he wouldn't return.
So for all those questioning it, why are there no questions about Bush's statement "I've seen war"? As best as I can tell, he never has, except maybe in the movies. And don't say he went to Iraq last thanksgiving, he said that during his first presidential campaign. I also think it's interesting that even with a $10,000 reward, no one from the Alabama ANG has come forward to claim they ever saw him there. No, that doesn't prove he wasn't there, but it is curious.
So quite frankly, I wish both sides would shut up about the other's military record.

I can't understand why anyone believes anything any politician says. It's been proven every 4 years that they will say whatever it takes to get elected.
 
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campbell

Guest
Noone will give a shit about Kerry's medals after the election. It's just something to use to win a few votes. Both political partys can, and will, use it to their advantage.
The canidate that would get my vote would be the one that came out and said, yeah I've fucked up in my life, ect... Unfortuantely that will never happen. In the meantime, I think everyone has made up their mind as to how they will vote.
 

Blue

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Mar 26, 2004
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V22Guy said:
I think that crosses the line.

Yes, and didn't you find that vehement statement a bit ironic, too, given Kerry's antics upon his triumphant return from combat?