Synthetic Winch Line

Leslie

Leslie

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Apr 28, 2004
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Well.......


Yes, it'll fit.



However, Huskys, um, run warm. Well, I should be more clear: if you winch out under load, excessive heat is generated, which some synthetics weren't really designed to cope with.

While winching in, or freespooling out the line, it should be okay. But if you have the line under load and run the line out in reverse, do so only to alleviate tension, to get a bit of slack. Otherwise, you may have a big gooey mess on your hands.

You could sleeve the line where it wraps around the drum to help, but, it won't make as much difference as controlling your winching method.


IMHO, if only for the reduction of hazards, synthetic is a good choice given the safety issues involved with steel lines. Even if it has other shortcomings. Selection of a heat-resistant line may be necessary, or better, preferable, depending on the winch (ie, like your Husky).


By all means, I say, go synthetic. But a heat-resistant line would be a prudent choice, given your winch.






FWIW....


-L
 
LiveAtTheEdge

LiveAtTheEdge

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Apr 19, 2004
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Lafayette, NorCal
i just read this on expedition exchange;

"Husky 10's come with 3/8" x 90' wire rope. If you like, you can remove this wire rope and fit a synthetic winch line. Unlike almost all planetary winches, there is no heat issue with a Husky because there is no drum brake on this winch. The worm drive alone is enough of a brake to hold the drum stationary."

i really won't fit one if it will melt. Are they talking about the newest model? i got mine start of feb from superwinch

cheers

Jack
 
Leslie

Leslie

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Ed and Linda Czajkowski of Florida were selling one of the variants at Uwharrie Safari; however, I don't remember the company's name... I'll have to dig for it and get back with you once I find it.


Another variant of the same is at http://www.4x4wire.com/reviews/oro_xline02/ just so you can see what I'm talking about.



Thing is, you shouldn't have to winch out under load..... you're not lowering yourself in most situations, you're reeling yourself back in, to pull you (or someone else) out of a hole...


I'd say that you can find a heat-resistant synthetic for the same or less money as the Amsteel that you found. However, the safety factor of any synthetic, even the Amsteel, makes it worth going to over steel cable - you just have to be aware of the limitations of what you're working with.....


FWIW....



-L
 
LiveAtTheEdge

LiveAtTheEdge

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Apr 19, 2004
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Lafayette, NorCal
ok. i don't intend on doing any winching out under load. thank's for your help clearing up this question. I'll be purchasing a heat safe synthetic winch line for the husky. i'm really suprised superwinch let their winch leave the factory with a frayed line.

Thanks again for your advice

Jack
 
Leslie

Leslie

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Tsk tsk, Ho.... 2 days, 24th to the 26th, you're slipping on catching my mistakes! :D

Seriously, though, I need to not post late nights, evidentally....

"Heat is generated in planetary winch drums (Warn laydown-style, Ramsey planetary winches, most Superwinches) only under "Power-Out" condition. This type of use drives the winch motor against the brake (note references by winch companies about "Automatic Load-Holding Brake"). This is similar to driving your vehicle with the parking brake engaged. " (from Rockstomper's site, FWIW)

I had just happened to have read that a bit earlier, and the "Superwinch" bit stuck in my head....

Of course, a Husky is a WORM winch, not a planetary..... so you can shit-can all that I said the other night......

Have to admit, back before I knew a thing about winches (well, NOT saying I no much now either, lol....), I wanted a Husky because it was "the CT winch"..... after listening enough to Kyle, and hearing about Ron Brown's smoker issues with one, I completely forgot about wanting a Husky, and thus, began to forget the correct facts about it.....





Jack,

In regards to your Husky, pay no more attention to me. :)




FWIW..... (which isn't much)



-L
 
S

Snwbord24

Guest
So all winches can use synthetic line, just don't "power out"? I'd love to get one for my warn but thought I was stuck with steel. Am I wrong here?
 
Mike_Rupp

Mike_Rupp

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Mar 26, 2004
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Mercer Island, WA
Snwbord24, if you've got a smoker winch, just get a kevlar line. It can withstand temps of ~400F, much more than the UHMWPE line. Your winch will probably smoke before the kevlar line.
 
S

Snwbord24

Guest
Hate to rekindle this thread but.....

I was looking at Warns synthetic winch line to replace my steel line. I emailed them and this is what they emailed back to me.

"Our part number 66437 will work with our self-recovery winches that have a rated capacity of 9500 lbs or less. Such as the M6000 through the 9.5 series winches."

According to Warn it's compatible with my XD9000. Is anyone using their new line? If so, opinions?
 
p m

p m

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Les,

the source you quoted is full of misconceptions. One funny thing I came across was the quote of the energy formula (missing 1/2 factor, but even that's beside the point). What they say there is since the rope is lighter, the energy released in breaking is less, by about the same factor as synthetic rope is lighter than steel cable. Somehow, the V^2 factor fell out of their equation - and V as speed of the end of broken cable is proportional to acceleration of that end when the rope breaks. Which is proportional to the tension in the cable before it falls apart divided by that very mass they were talking about.
So, following their logic a bit more strictly, the rope is even more dangerous than steel cable when it breaks.

People fuck up physics in every which way they want... Like Magnecor :)
 
stansell

stansell

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Jun 14, 2004
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Norfolk, VA
PM,

I would agree that for old 'rope type' lines, snap back is a severe problem. Doing the math, the velocity for the end of a rope that parts is higher than for an equally size wire line due the rope having less mass. However, technology has come a long way and the new lines lose much of their kinetic energy, (mechanism fails me, has to do with the inelastic properties within the line) when they part, so the actual velocity when they part is much lower. The result is that synthetic lines don't have the 'snap back' like an equivalent wire line.

Rob
 
p m

p m

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The energy stored in a stretched rope is proportional to stress in the rope times elongation; given the same load on the rope when it breaks, the rope with larger elongation will hold more energy. In this respect, steel cable will have less elastic energy stored before it breaks. So, the mechanism must be different.

I think that, unlike steel cable, synthetic line does not offer any resistance to compression (same with chain). What that means is when it breaks, the pieces of rope fly along the line of unbroken rope - therefore not hitting anything on its path. In the synthetic rope, the friction between the strands will allow for quick dissipation of its elastic energy.

The steel cable will coil up - and that's how it snags and hits things _near_ it's path. The chain links also have a chance of flying in odd directions, but it rarely happens.
 
davidz

davidz

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Apr 26, 2004
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the company Leslie was talking about That Ed and Linda were selling is www.dynaflexrecovery.com they have a heat rating around 900 + degrees, this stuff is far superior to anything i have seen including master pull. according to the specs and just to clarify, i am not a chemical engineer, or whatever the hell you call them, i just play one on tv. :D
 
S

Snwbord24

Guest
Einstein rules :D E=mc^2
Energy is mass times velocity squared. Obviously the mass is much less for synthetic rope so for the same velocity their energy is equal. For the velocity part. This comes from the elongation of the winch line. Lets say both have the same %elongation. When the line breaks the %elongation will return to zero. For steel, this happens very quickly, resulting in a large velocity. For the synthetic, this happens 'relatively' slowly so the velocity is much lower. So the energy from a synthetic line is less because it's mass is less and the velocity is less upon breaking.
 
p m

p m

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Snwbord24 said:
Einstein rules :D E=mc^2
Energy is mass times velocity squared. Obviously the mass is much less for synthetic rope so for the same velocity their energy is equal. For the velocity part. This comes from the elongation of the winch line. Lets say both have the same %elongation. When the line breaks the %elongation will return to zero. For steel, this happens very quickly, resulting in a large velocity. For the synthetic, this happens 'relatively' slowly so the velocity is much lower. So the energy from a synthetic line is less because it's mass is less and the velocity is less upon breaking.
Click to expand...

Shane, you've fucked up the not-so-simple issue multiple times.
- "Einsten rules E=mc^2" has NOTHING to do with it.
- "Obviously the mass is much less for synthetic rope so for the same velocity their energy is equal" HUH? if velocity is the same, and mass is less, how is energy equal?
- the elongation of the synthetic rope is nearly four times more than steel
- how do you know - how long does it take for the cable to break? Have you EVER seen a steel cable to break at once?

Not that it really matters to the decision process (buy or not to buy synthetic rope)...
 
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