The Kooks are Back

[emmodg]

Answer my question Daniel - it's not like you to dodge them. Why do you care so much about these people to want to know so much about them? And as an aside - what have they accomplished that I should be so envious about? And so I and others here are to understand your point: Are you claiming that this family is completely and innocent of any and all charges and that they have always conducted themselves as ladies and gentleman when it came to our country's laws? Is this a big government conspiracy against the Bundy family?

 

[emmodg]

By the way Clarence Darrow: Learn to format your pictures correctly. (Or is your horizon line vertical as you look out your window?)

 

[D Chapman]

Answer my question Daniel - it's not like you to dodge them. Why do you care so much about these people to want to know so much about them? And as an aside - what have they accomplished that I should be so envious about? And so I and others here are to understand your point: Are you claiming that this family is completely and innocent of any and all charges and that they have always conducted themselves as ladies and gentleman when it came to our country's laws? Is this a big government conspiracy against the Bundy family?

JB, I?ve answered all these questions, more than once.

 

[D Chapman]

By the way Clarence Darrow: Learn to format your pictures correctly. (Or is your horizon line vertical as you look out your window?)

Can?t help that the site is not mobile friendly.

 

[emmodg]

I already looked - point me to the post where you answered the 1st question in my last post.

By the the way - You can fix the pic before you even post it.

 

[D Chapman]

Here, JB. What else can I spoon feed you?

First of all I do not understand why our Federal government, much less our State government, wants to be in the real estate business. I don't get it. Sure, we need military bases. But I do not agree with the Shenandoah National Park land grab from the 1930's, and I don't understand why the Feds want to control all this land in Nevada, Oregon, Washington, etc... This is nothing new and it's only getting worse. The EPA is telling us what we can and cannot do on our own private property; our government is utilizing reverse mortgages on homes; recreation in our Nation Forests is being limited year-by-year. So I don't get the objective here.

But where the Bundy's come in is interesting to me. The Bundy's, and many, many more just like them, have been ranchers for years-and-years in this area of the country. They lease the land from the Federal government to raise their livestock. They work the ground like it was theirs - plant cover crops, prescribed fire, build fences....everything you and I would do if we owned livestock. It's been this way for longer than you or I were ever thought of.

But then the government starts micro-managing these ranchers. Regulations go well beyond reasonable practices.

So the government is regulating these ranchers out of business in the name of saving the XYZ bush and ABC bird. The same people who impose these regulations, naturally, are not ranchers and are not interested in working with ranchers. It's the same people we call "tree huggers" on the east coast who complain there are no deer in the woods but are dead set on not creating habitat because it might endanger a tree frog during a prescribed burn. Yet, they'll wreck a forest with bull dozers to put out a fire started by lighting strike so the fire does not damage old growth forests that are causing the lack of wildlife problem in the first place. So I can understand the frustration people like the Bundy's must be facing because the people in Washington D.C. just do not get it.

Never mind the rumors that people elected into our government will benefit for kicking the ranchers out.

A few quotes to consider that make it interesting to me:

 

[D Chapman]

By the the way - You can fix the pic before you even post it.

Pic looks right on my phone. It uploads sideways. Sorry that ruins your day.

 

[SGaynor]

The Bundy's, and many, many more just like them, have been ranchers for years-and-years in this area of the country. They lease the land from the Federal government to raise their livestock.

Grazing rights are real property. You own them. You can sell them. You can borrow money against them.

Well, which is it? Do they lease the rights from the government or own them?

What happens if you don't pay your rent? And just because you rent something, does that mean the owner no longer has any say in how the property gets used?

And just to clarify - you don't think there should be any public lands? No state forests? No state parks? no museums? no libraries? All government buildings/land should be owned by private individuals?

First of all I do not understand why our Federal government, much less our State government, wants to be in the real estate business. I don't get it. Sure, we need military bases. But I do not agree with the Shenandoah National Park land grab from the 1930's, and I don't understand why the Feds want to control all this land in Nevada, Oregon, Washington, etc...

 

[pinkytoe69]

The EPA is telling us what we can and cannot do on our own private property

That's because no matter how private your property is, it doesn't exist in your own personal private biosphere.

Burning tires all day, everyday on your private property would fuck everything up for the rest of us, hence we have shit like the EPA to prevent that.

(And yes, I remember your grievances with the seemingly pointless inspections you have to deal with)

 

[D Chapman]

Well, which is it? Do they lease the rights from the government or own them?

What happens if you don't pay your rent? And just because you rent something, does that mean the owner no longer has any say in how the property gets used?

And just to clarify - you don't think there should be any public lands? No state forests? No state parks? no museums? no libraries? All government buildings/land should be owned by private individuals?

You own them. You have a deed. Same with water rights and mineral rights. When you stop using the land, you lose the right to it.

You're hung up on the grazing rights. Well, what about the water rights the Bundy's own? Why did the feds dig up their water pipes? The feds are not totally innocent here, but for some reason you find that very hard to believe because you're a snowflake.

And you misinterpret what I said about the Skyline Drive (not that anyone would be surprised with your comprehension skills). The land for Skyline Drive was stolen from the people who lived there. The feds took their land. Not only did the feds take their land but the feds burned their homes and barns. Do I think this is right for the feds to do? No, I do not. I think it's pretty fucked up, actually.

Oh, but the feds paid for the land, right? Ha.

Do I think the federal government should be in the real estate business? No, I do not. It's quite simple to understand (for some).

 

[D Chapman]

That's because no matter how private your property is, it doesn't exist in your own personal private biosphere.

Burning tires all day, everyday on your private property would fuck everything up for the rest of us, hence we have shit like the EPA to prevent that.

(And yes, I remember your grievances with the seemingly pointless inspections you have to deal with)

The EPA does lots of fucked up shit. The EPA will not be around too much longer I suspect. Trump is already fucking them up and even the libertarians want the EPA gone. Heaven forbid you want to build a pond on your own property.Oh the horror.

 

[D Chapman]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!! Cliven and Ammond Bundy are being released from jail as I write this! Holy shit, Scott and JB are going to commit suicide.

 

[pinkytoe69]

Heaven forbid you want to build a pond on your own property.Oh the horror.

Yeah sometimes things go a little overboard.

It's a variation on the Blackstone principle...

Better for one innocent man to deal with some unnecessary bullshit than let everyone treat the environment however the hell they want.

 

[D Chapman]

Better for one innocent man to deal with some unnecessary bullshit than let everyone treat the environment however the hell they want.

There was one recent case where the EPA was fining a guy $75,000 per day for building a pond. I kind of have a problem with one (1) government agency finding a problem, proving guilt, and sentencing without a trial. But that's just me.

 

[SGaynor]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!! Cliven, Ryan and Ammond Bundy are being released from jail as I write this! Holy shit, Scott and JB are going to commit suicide.

You can hold on to the cyanide pills - they are being released for the trial. They are still being tried; the charges weren't dismissed.

 

[D Chapman]

I did not say the charges have been dismissed. Yet. You said that. But this is huge.

 

[SGaynor]

I did not say the charges have been dismissed. Yet. You said that. But this is huge.

Why is it YUGE?

 

[pinkytoe69]

There was one recent case where the EPA was fining a guy $75,000 per day for building a pond. I kind of have a problem with one (1) government agency finding a problem, proving guilt, and sentencing without a trial. But that's just me.

I understand the shittiness of that situation, but what is your preferred alternative?

Let any landowner do whatever they want regardless of the ramifications?

 

[D Chapman]

I understand the shittiness of that situation, but what is your preferred alternative?

Let any landowner do whatever they want regardless of the ramifications?

Go to your LOCAL offices and obtain a permit just as you would for a home, barn, water well, or septic, and get going with your pond. Of course someone may not need a pond outside their townhouse, but if the request is reasonable I don?t see what the feds need to get involved.

 

[D Chapman]

Why is it YUGE?

It?s well beyond you, Scott. You will never understand. Ever.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AMCFoudyYxQ