W '04

[cmondieyoung]

You can argue a point with him if you wish, but if you think he is mindless, calling him names and making personal attacks is merely stooping below his level. Everyone has an opinion and if you want to convince someone of your argument you have to get off your high horse sometimes.

Unfortunately the conservative MO is to deride progressive thought as "finger pointing and rhetoric".

With the exception of several posters, Greg's argument here is just the college grad version of Pirate4x4 faux-elitist jingoism. "Mindless Liberal Monkey"? That's real classy. Glad you were able to descend to my level and conjure up such a scathing witticism from the dredges of your far-reaching intellect.

I tried to put what's happening now to rest by reducing it to a conflict of interest, but I guess that didn't fly.

 

[p m]

They'd rather give to charity and adopt a highway than pay a higher income tax.

Exactly. I'd rather give money to someone who needs it, rather than to give it to a certain common pool that management and lawyers feed off (no offense to managers and lawyers).

You can walk out of the door and clean up 200 yards of the street from trash
- or -
You can donate your money to local government so it hires somebody to do it,
- or -
You can pay more in taxes, so a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of it will go to the local government so it could hire somebody to do it.

In which case do you think streets would be cleaner?

 

[cmondieyoung]

Yes, let's put the maintenence of our civilization to the disrection of its citizens. I'm sure that will work out fine.

No one will pay to get anything done, since the wealthy wouldn't get any more tax breaks for giving to charity--since the charity is now assumed as means for civil upkeep.

That pothole isn't on MY street, why should I have to pay to have it fixed?

 

[bell03disco2]

Warning tirade ahead

Teresa Hienz is a very wealthy woman and she gives to charities. Are you suggesting that she does it for the tax break? If people are giving to charities for tax relief they are giving for the wrong reasons. I would prefer to give my money to the charities that I think are going to do the most good with my money. Maybe the lack of morality in the US is the major cause for concern. If people are giving, not for the gratification of helping your fellow human, to get tax relief maybe that relief should be absolved. A flat tax among all the classes of people would make perfect sense. Every person should pay an equal portion of their salary. No tax exemptions.
I am a full time work and full time college student. My work comes first because I have a family to support. I was educated in rural NW Florida, and come from a broken home. I did not have all the advantages in the world, but I worked hard to get what I have. I could have been caught up in the ritualistic ?street corner? mentality, but I wanted more for myself. Granted I have been given several opportunities, but I have worked hard for everything that I have.
America was founded on the ideal that you work hard and you will be rewarded. Why punish a person for being successful? If I work hard enough to become CEO of a corporation why should I pay the lion?s share of the burden just so a third generation welfare family can sit on its ass all day and not be productive? I believe that welfare is a necessity, but just as temporary means to help a family get back on their feet. I presently make a salary of around $45k, but if I lost my job and was unable to get on with the same pay I would work doing anything that I could to support my family.
The standard of living in America must come down if we are to keep the population working. I hate to say this, but not everybody can drive a Landrover or own a house. I do not believe that people should be placed into positions in society, i.e. a cast system, but some people are need for certain jobs. Working is what had this country great, and apathy and the television are going to destroy this country.
I am a Bush supporter. Although I think that he has mishandled some things I believe that of the 2 viable choices for president he will provide a brighter future for me and my family. Had a better candidate come from the left I would have chosen them. I am the most liberal republican to walk the planet. I think that W should be given the chance to show himself. A 4 year term is too short to prove anything. Many of his policies have not been in place long enough to gauge the affects.

To each their own, you should vote you conscious.

 

[bri]

Warning tirade ahead

Teresa Hienz is a very wealthy woman and she gives to charities. Are you suggesting that she does it for the tax break? If people are giving to charities for tax relief they are giving for the wrong reasons. I would prefer to give my money to the charities that I think are going to do the most good with my money. Maybe the lack of morality in the US is the major cause for concern. If people are giving, not for the gratification of helping your fellow human, to get tax relief maybe that relief should be absolved. A flat tax among all the classes of people would make perfect sense. Every person should pay an equal portion of their salary. No tax exemptions.
.

Yeah! Another proponent of flat tax.​

America was founded on the ideal that you work hard and you will be rewarded. Why punish a person for being successful? If I work hard enough to become CEO of a corporation why should I pay the lion?s share of the burden just so a third generation welfare family can sit on its ass all day and not be productive? I believe that welfare is a necessity, but just as temporary means to help a family get back on their feet.
.

Is that not what it is? Do you really believe that all people on welfare really don't need it and pass it on for generations? There are abusers of any system and outlaws everywhere, but to make this generalization seems like a pretty bit leap to me.​

Working is what had this country great, and apathy and the television are going to destroy this country..

Oh my, I hope that this comment does not originate from that rise and fall of democracy urban legend.​

A 4 year term is too short to prove anything. Many of his policies have not been in place long enough to gauge the affects.

I agree. It should be 6 years, no 2nd term. That way people are committed to do the job, do it right and focused for the full term on their job, not for 1/2 the term on getting elected again.​

 

[bri]

PM, A job will always get done better if you do it yourself (well most of the time).

 

[GregH]

Where is the hypocrisy? The Republicans DID make me do it. If my family still lived in New York, my sister would attend public school in Westchester--why? Because the high taxes in that area allow for a good school system.

We keep coming back to this. Public schools in poor, conversative areas (the south, the west, and the southwest) will never compete with those in New England or the mid-atlantic. Why? Well that's obvious. It's a case of "I hate the government, I don't make much money, I don't need any goddamn taxes."

LOL

If it's that obvious, then why can't everyone see the solution is as simple as raising taxes and paying teachers higher wages. Could it be that it's not? Yes, I realize that it must be that Americans are ignorant.

Whatever. To even suggest to the contrary that the American elementary to high school education system is not lacking is exactly the ignorance I am talking about. After all, we're the best country in the world, right?

Since no one here has made the allegation that the American education system is wonderful, why are you even bringin it up? In fact, concerns are being raised to the opposite.

Well obviously you don't. Pick up a copy of the Communist Manifesto. The answer lies plainly inside.

LOL

I still have my copy from 20 years ago (when you were what? 10 years old?). Why not prove me wrong? Just answer the question.

 

[GregH]

You can argue a point with him if you wish, but if you think he is mindless, calling him names and making personal attacks is merely stooping below his level. Everyone has an opinion and if you want to convince someone of your argument you have to get off your high horse sometimes.

Where's the fun in that?

As far as I know the middle class receives less of a tax break now than other brackets. Just look at the tax savings listed from calculators earlier in the post. As your income increases so does your savings.

Agreed

I also think that he is only a mediocre leader. Cheney is running the show behind the scenes.

I've been hearing rumors of Carl Rowe. Since I'm not behind the seens I don't know.

George has a bunch of smart people helping him make each and every move, but I would not give him all of the credit.

Agreed.

 

[GregH]

Well, by contributing to our understanding of the history of the world we live in, I certainly "contribute more to society" than someone who sits under a mountain of debt and taxes, don't I? Sounds like all you do is shell out cash to a greedy government. Poor you.

The work we've done with Tlingit and Haida communities in SE Alaska to reaffirm land claims and historic fishing precedents is noble in my mind.

I do appreciate the concern for my financial welfare.

The debt I assumed willingly in order to start a business (and provide jobs for 35 people) and taxes I also pay willingly. Especially now that I know that it helps allow you to "contribute more to society" than I do.

 

[cmondieyoung]

I'm bored of your trolling posts, buddy.

To the others--I appreciate the good debate! I think I'll sign off from this one for now.

 

[Timmy!!!!!!!]

Ketchup

Hey if Kerry does get elected.(which i seriously doubt) will we all get a bottle of ketchup . Kerry isn't even supported by one of Bill Clinton's biggest supporters. And even though the defender is not emission friendly right now. How can you support nader when one of the biggest reasons the defender is not more prominent on the roads is b/c of the lack of airbags. I am a Korean offroader for Bush.

Don't Mess with Texas.

 

[GregH]

I'm bored of your trolling posts, buddy.

To the others--I appreciate the good debate! I think I'll sign off from this one for now.

I understand.

Seriously, I was looking forward to hearing how Marx could argue against his own ideas on the natural evolution of society and the revolution of the proletariat...