What A Crock Of @#@##@#$!!!!!

[utahdog2003]

no, you don't understand that I'm not knocking any fuel. I'm making the point that if you are driving a car on a public street you are relying on the Oil/Automobile/Trucking industry. And a huge portion of that interest group is Oil. I don't care if your car runs on your own urine or dirty bathwater. Man, even PAVING a road is reliant on the oil industry.

This idea that you can convert your car to run on used peanut oil from your local chinese Takee Outee and be removed from association with a pro-oil economy is rediculous. Might as well drag yourself into the woods and live in a hollowed out log, like the Unibomber. Keep the pipes to yourself.

Biodiesel sounds fine to me, hell I'm fascinated by any alternative fuel. But using an individual machine as transportation (and I'm as guilty here as you) no matter what's in it's tank, contributes to the collective cost of gas just as much as pumping it at the station.

 

[dent]

reading through this post I agree somewhat to what peter has to say and what other do say.
Think the only people that are not dependant on gas is people who don't have a car of any sort and don't own a house. what need does one have for gas powered anything when living in a duplex or apartment.
Now to take this a step further. Everyone is dependant on gas *if* you look at the big picture. As utah said, roads have some sort of petrolim product. The public transit people take runs on a petrolium product. Any sort of plastic one owns has petrolium products...
Guess the point i'm trying to make is everyone is right to a degree and depends on how the look at the issue...
and just to get your goat.. by you not taking your truck to work you are dependant on gas? your actions are dictated by the price of gas so subsequently you are dependant in a way
my 2 cents
sam

 

[Sergei]

Well we just will all switch to diesel engines of huge size and help those corn growing barons to make more money on selling that stuff
And then damn thing will go up in price. And we will be oil dependant by then
How about that?


And we already hit 2.15$? gallon here. Whohooo.. I guess at Memorial Day weekend it will be around 3$ here and i dont want to even think how much CA folkz will be paying.

 

[utahdog2003]

2.15! In Durango! yikes!

Boulder...where you at 3 bills?

 

[peterca]

Utah(sorry for the wrong name ),
You say "and be removed from association with a pro-oil economy is rediculous. " when I already said ""I have no illusions on my total dependancy on oil byproducts in general. I realize plastics and other byproducts have so permiated society that I can't get by without them. "
I know my posts have too many friggin words in them, but I already stated I know there are tons of other things oil is used for that I depend on. If you want to make this arguement larger than the cost and dependancy on gasoline, that's fine. I was only arguing about what the thread was started for.

Undoubtedly once more people use biodiesel there will be more cartels in the soybean/corn/rapeseed markets and they will probably be no different than the current oil company setups. At which time, I will try to find a way to use my own urine as a fuel. But then, they'll raise the price of beer too. Damn, screwed anyway you look at it.

 

[utahdog2003]

I aint Sergei, and he aint me.

 

[Blue]

Yes, I admit I was yanking Peter's chain there a bit

I just like watching you get annoyed and type "I'm not dependent on gas, I just need it to make my car go."

I am not dependent on gas. It's $2.36/gallon out here but I haven't put gas in the disco since early February.

 

[utahdog2003]

I just go to Taco Bell, load up on Gorditas and Mountain Dew and get my gas for free!

dependency however, is another arguement altogether.

 

[peterca]

Blue, you said you put gas in your truck at some point in time, you're dependant on it too. pure & simple



I'm still waiting for Brian's response to my spoon analogy. That took be the better part of an hour to think up.

Funniest thing I saw today was a gas station not prepared to put so many 2s up on their board. They had the three grades of gas and diesel. regular was 2.12 then 2.22 then 2.32 and when they got to diesel they just put up a 7 with some duct tape to make it into a 2 for 2.15 Someone better tell them to start ordering extra 3s as well.

 

[Blue]

correct, I'm no longer dependent would have been more accurate

that's funny about running out of 2's

 

[bri]

Pete,

We are all dependent on gas/petroleum products easy, even you have now admitted it (albeit a qualified admittal). "I'll concede I'm currently dependant on gas to get around."

About the spoon and your first paragraph of that statement, you finally got it right. ;-)

Too bad it took an hour to come up with it though. ;-)

Anyhow, on the other topic...

If you do not use waste oil for production of bio-diesel it increases the price right? thus making it even less beneficial for the DIY kinda guy.

The last thing I need in my garage is huge quantities of the crud that you make this stuff out of. To me the risk associated with it as well as the possible mess from a little boo-boo would be horrible. To me, horrible enough to just go buy the stuff. To me, highly impractical until I have a huge property and dedicated garage solely for the purpose of making it. hell, by then I would even be able to afford the Lr engine to burn the stuff.

For my diesel, if I made it, it would be in 64 gallon batches *minimum*.

Cheers,

Brian

 

[utahdog2003]

I think if you're making your own diesel, then you clearly have a dependency on some chemicals! It might not be Gas or Taco Bell, but chemicals none the less!

and...I never run out of 2s. (ew!)

 

[peterca]

"I think if you're making your own diesel, then you clearly have a dependency on some chemicals! It might not be Gas or Taco Bell, but chemicals none the less!" Ok, you've officially gone over the edge.

"About the spoon and your first paragraph of that statement, you finally got it right. ;-)" Are you serious Brian? Do you think I was trying to prove your point or mine. I think you're definition of dependant is really whacked if it includes something you happen to be using at the moment, whether you need it or not. I'm not dependant on a spoon to eat ice cream, however, I AM dependant on my mouth for the most part. I can use a fork or even a spork for the ice cream or no spoon at all.

You're right about the cost going up if you don't use waste oil. But that arguement is soon becoming moot as the pump today showed $2.25 for diesel and it's $3/gal using virgin oil (mmmmm) around here with all road taxes. If you made it yourself, I think our road taxes around here are something like $.40/gal so the gap gets even closer.

If nothing else, I'm glad you've at least thought about it and eventually more pumps will open up closer to where you live. Check out http://forums.biodieselnow.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=16 for some more info. Heck, you can get it cheaper than here but I'm not sure where any of these stations are in regards to where you live: http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2464

onward

 

[utahdog2003]

Peterca, just interjecting some levity. I understand your point about reducing your gas use. There are a billion reasons to park your car and not pump the stinky stuff for 3 bills a gal. But I just get all antsy when I read somebody's over-simplified solutions to these larger scale issues.

Sorts like in the early 90's, when everyone on my campus was all up in arms to promote the use of Dolphin Safe Tuna. My Oceanography professor used to drive home the point daily that 'Saving Flipper is nice and touchy feely and all, but if the rest of our ocean management efforts are crap then the damn dolphins will be dead soon anyway.'

Same logic needs to be applied to Crude Oil/Fossil Fuel dependency in the USA. We need to do more than use less gas to get to a point of real change.

Now from a techno-gadget standpoint, I'm all for converting your Disco to diesel. Knew a guy who converted an old Rabbit diesel to run on Soybean oil. Granted his car was worth less than a dirty sock, so there was little risk in screwing it up, but still...convert away!

peace, ma brutha!

 

[bri]

If I have to invest time to make BD, this is included in the cost. It is much cheaper for me to just buy diesel 1 mile away for 1/2 the price of BD. It will only be an alternative for me when it is less expensive for me to purchase. My spare time is way more valuable to me than to spend it making BD.

I may try it though to see how well it works. Any idea how it might work in a Power Stroke TD? I'll have to ask in the ford forums.

Brian

PS: I give up on the spoon discussion. Look it up in a dictionary.

 

[utahdog2003]

One more thing...I am in no way advocating the butchering of Flipper...FYI

 

[peterca]

Utahdog the Horrible Killer of Cute Little Dolphins,
"Now from a techno-gadget standpoint," ironically putting in a diesel would require less of the techno gadgets associated with Rover petrol engines. If there was only a really cheap way to do it.

Brian,
I haven't looked into the fords much but I know there can be problems if real rubber lines are used as it can slowly eat away at them. Plus the first time you use it it will clean up your fuel tank a good deal so it's suggested you change the fuel filter if it hasn't been changed in a while. Other than that, there should be no problem using a B20 blend or even B100 this time of year. There is vague floating rumors on unsubstantiated comments that Ford might not honor engine warranties if bio is used, but I've never seen fact and really don't know how they could back that up.

And I agree about the opportunity cost of spending time making biodiesel and the efficiency level you have to get to to truly get down to $.70/gal. You'd have to have dedicated space and a 250 gallon storage tank for it when you're done to make it even worth while.

good luck.
PS I did look it up and I don't require support from that dang spoon. I'm more of a cone guy myself anyway.

 

[Bruno]

Hey Peter..

Look for those pennies to start pouring in from your reduced consumption, after you spend that TEN THOUSAND dollars plus installation (3 to 5 thousand), for your beloved 2.8 Diesel.

LOL,
Bruno.

 

[peterca]

Bruno,
If I was just in it for the money, I'd sell the money pit rover and buy something with cheaper parts and a diesel already in it. It's not about saving money as it will take about 12 years to break even with current difference in price between gas and biodiesel and about a 75% increase in fuel efficiency.

You didn't buy a Rover because you wanted to save money did you? You bought it because it was what you wanted, I'm assuming.

 

[anthony]

anyone with a tdi cna always have your rig converted to use biodiesel. there is a guy in covington ky who can do this.. anyone wants info email me!