What, exactly, is Kerry going to do...

[p m]

My first thought is to say, "yeah, it's called electrolysis, dumbass." However, I can't tell from simply reading your post if you are serious or just joking here, so I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I appreciate your benefit of doubt, Greg.

Now, when the atoms of hydrogen and oxygen are combined in a molecule of water, some amount of energy is released. To peel them apart, you need to invest some energy - one way of doing that (the most energy-efficient at that) is to apply the electric field strong enough that the atoms are separated. What makes you think that this energy is less than the energy released when the atoms are recombined into the water molecule?

Actually I think they already have a couple of cars running on it and even a fill up station or two... Saw it on the Discovery channel..

of course one can run the internal combustion engine on hydrogen.
What I am saying is that you need to expend much greater amount of energy to produce hydrogen than you are going to get by burning it. So, in essense, this is the same shit as electric vehicles - you move the source of pollution from one place to another. Like shitting in your neighbor's backyard.

Kyle, you look into the root of the issue, my hat's off again. It needs to look good.

 

[Greg P]

I appreciate your benefit of doubt, Greg.

Now, when the atoms of hydrogen and oxygen are combined in a molecule of water, some amount of energy is released. To peel them apart, you need to invest some energy - one way of doing that (the most energy-efficient at that) is to apply the electric field strong enough that the atoms are separated. What makes you think that this energy is less than the energy released when the atoms are recombined into the water molecule?


of course one can run the internal combustion engine on hydrogen.
What I am saying is that you need to expend much greater amount of energy to produce hydrogen than you are going to get by burning it. So, in essense, this is the same shit as electric vehicles - you move the source of pollution from one place to another. Like shitting in your neighbor's backyard.

Kyle, you look into the root of the issue, my hat's off again. It needs to look good.

Well, it doesn't really take much electricty to produce hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis. I remember doing it in Highschool science class with a cup of water, a battery and a few pieces of wire and stuff. The hydrogen was captured in an upside down beaker placed over the cup of hydrogen.

The method I read about though wasn't using the hydrogen to burn for an engine, it was used as a fuel cell battery of sorts that powered the car and the electrolysis process.

What makes you think it takes so much power to produce hydrogen?

 

[Greg P]

Actually I think they already have a couple of cars running on it and even a fill up station or two... Saw it on the Discovery channel..

BMW had a pilot project going out in Cali on a couple of 7series cars running on a hydrogen combustion engines.

 

[p m]

Well, it doesn't really take much electricty to produce hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis. I remember doing it in Highschool science class with a cup of water, a battery and a few pieces of wire and stuff. The hydrogen was captured in an upside down beaker placed over the cup of hydrogen.

did you measure the heat this amount of hydrogen has produced while burning?

What makes you think it takes so much power to produce hydrogen?

the most fundamental law of nature - conservation of energy.
Pause for a moment and give it a thought - you want to split a molecule in two atoms, then let them recombine into the same molecule, and extract energy in process.

 

[Blue]

the most fundamental law of nature - conservation of energy.
Pause for a moment and give it a thought - you want to split a molecule in two atoms, then let them recombine into the same molecule, and extract energy in process.

I'm tellin you, Peter, just watch The Saint and it will all be clear

Seriously, I think the more realistic scenario that Lostinboston is suggesting is not a perpetual self-sustaining (or even growing) reaction.....he's talking about a much more efficient reaction than is currently on the table. You are correct in you account of the conservation of energy....it is not very plausible to put energy packet X into the effort of splitting the molecule and then recoup energy packet Y where Y > X. But who knows....there are a lot of smart, well-funded motherfuckers working on stuff like this. I've been out of the cutting-edge theoretical game for a while now....

 

[LostInBoston]

maybe we should start a new thread to argue about it.
in "The Saint" they were talking about nuclear fusion which theroretically constantly produces energy. there was also something similar in "Chain Reaction". none of which are actualyl possible though.

 

[p m]

Blue, of course I know what this game is about - you can dig into seemingly endless pit of energy (uranium), build a bunch of water-cracker plants in the desert, pipe the stuff to the pumps, and fly away. It isn't going to make the IC engine any more efficient, so at best you're still going to lose about 70% of heat on the vehicle side (and the same - on the powerplant side). You can do fuel cells, converting fuel into electricity directly, and use 95%-efficient electric motors - but the mankind hasn't gotten the money to do it on the scale America operates now.
As a byproduct, you'll have a well-developed, very poisonous-polluting industry (and thus feed an army of geologists to take care of that ).

Going back to the topic, I couldn't stand listening to Al Gore blabbering about all that crap.

 

[GregH]

of course one can run the internal combustion engine on hydrogen.
What I am saying is that you need to expend much greater amount of energy to produce hydrogen than you are going to get by burning it. So, in essense, this is the same shit as electric vehicles - you move the source of pollution from one place to another. Like shitting in your neighbor's backyard.

LOL-
Yes, I'm waiting for hydrogen to convert my RRC. How about nuclear power to produce the electricity for hydrogen conversion then we ship the waste to Murmansk and dump it there. I don't think the Russians will notice the waste with all their sinking nuclear submarines in the area-it's glowing already

 

[Eric N.]

This whole damn board is a Hannity broadcast.

You know, I had no clue who the hell Hannity was when you kept saying that... I finally watched one of his shows... Holly crap man they let this guy on TV... What an asshole this guy is.. How can that even be called a news show.. Damn..