What, exactly, is Kerry going to do...

MarkP

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cmondieyoung said:
I'd appreciate some information backing up your statement that the Kyoto Accords are just a bunch of political "BS".

Kyoto exempts Indai and China

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/22/92331.shtml

Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia wrote Resolution S. 98 that opposed ratification of Kyoto if it did not comply with certain concerns, the primary one being the exemption of developing nations like China and India from its requirements.

Coal-driven China can hardly draw breath (16 of planet's 20 most polluted cities are in China)
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | October 12, 2004
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1241580/posts

On some nights when the wind blows on the outskirts of town a foul chemical smell penetrates the air so intensely that residents hold their noses and run into their homes.

In the winter the coal dust is so thick that many people spend the entire season coughing.
Like much of the rest of Shanxi province in northern China, the industrial city of Linfen thrives on coal. Coal mining, coal processing and coal-fired power plants keep the people of Shanxi employed and supply most of China's energy needs.


The country generating the most polution is exempt from Kyoto!

Then one finds out that the global warming data is junk science. I'll find that tomorrow. For now, goodnight.

sKerry and Edwards unemployed - a good day.
 

LostInBoston

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MarkP said:
Kyoto exempts Indai and China

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/22/92331.shtml

Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia wrote Resolution S. 98 that opposed ratification of Kyoto if it did not comply with certain concerns, the primary one being the exemption of developing nations like China and India from its requirements.

Coal-driven China can hardly draw breath (16 of planet's 20 most polluted cities are in China)
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | October 12, 2004
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1241580/posts

On some nights when the wind blows on the outskirts of town a foul chemical smell penetrates the air so intensely that residents hold their noses and run into their homes.

In the winter the coal dust is so thick that many people spend the entire season coughing.
Like much of the rest of Shanxi province in northern China, the industrial city of Linfen thrives on coal. Coal mining, coal processing and coal-fired power plants keep the people of Shanxi employed and supply most of China's energy needs.


The country generating the most polution is exempt from Kyoto!

Then one finds out that the global warming data is junk science. I'll find that tomorrow. For now, goodnight.

sKerry and Edwards unemployed - a good day.


Um, sure, what he said.

I am in favor of reducing emissions, hell, ive been doing months of research on biofuels and recently learned how to run a car off of WATER. I hate oil, maily bacause almost a $ Trillion, yes thats a T, goes overseas, and its disgusting and causes asthma, which i have. but i dont think Kyoto protocol will help US at all. The DOE under the CURRENT BUSH administration has actual PLANS to reduce our dependency on foreign fuels by 30% by 2010. A big part of this plan is bio-fuels, mainly ethanol and bidiesel, which has huge energy and tax bills being passed recently. we dont need other countries telling us what we can and cant do, we have enough educated people in this country to figure out whats best for us.
 
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Blue

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nvirochallenged said:
I wanted to bring up the point that American political policies are not determined by who occupies the presidency, but by the fashion in which Americans live thier day to day lives.
Hmmmmm......ok, I see your point...
this is somewhat true, albeit very indirectly and you're talking trends and not instantaneous direct changes.


nvirochallenged said:
Public activities dictate special interest groups and special interest groups dictate government.
This is not a correct understanding of the process. You are making it sound like today I make decision A in my everyday life and this afternoon a special interest group sees my decision A and formulates policy B and tomorrow I'll awake to new law C. I think your idea of public interest control is quashed by the yesterday's record voter turnout and the subsequent election results. If you want to try to slip in the back door and tell me that public interests exercise some sort of mind control and therefore steered the election that way, then I can't really respond to that.


nvirochallenged said:
The Kyoto Protocol, ignored by the American Government, is a prime example why Americans wont take more responsibility as individuals for becoming such consumers and contributing to a global environmental crisis. The American population is generally unaware that thier consumption is creating tears in the global world.
Ignored by the American Government? Incorrect. It was studied, considered, debated, disputed, and a decision was made not to honor Kyoto. However, I will agree with you that Americans are loathe to take responsibility as individuals (the clich?d ignorant masses), but "America" has done more to assist the world than any other country in history. Let me ask you, are you sitting in your treetop forest home surfing dweb on your solar-powered laptop? Or are you sitting in your residential structure that required resources to construct and requires ongoing resources to facilitate it's operation? Do you walk to work, naked & barefoot? Do you work? Are you paid? Do you donate all your earnings?


nvirochallenged said:
As America is occupied with whats happening in Iraq, The War on Terror and Increasing border security, the problems that controls these factors are not outside Americas borders, but within.
Sounds incredibly insightful, but this is really a very naive statement. Even if we built walls around our land and capped it off with a giant acrylic dome so we expelled nothing but filtered air to the outside world, people would still attempt to infiltrate our country and kill us. The problems that control these factors are outside America's borders.
 

GotRovr

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Jun 16, 2004
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Thank God, Kerry conceded

We can now close this thread and get back to our Land Rover lives.
 

MarkP

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LostInBoston said:
I am in favor of reducing emissions, hell, ive been doing months of research on biofuels and recently learned how to run a car off of WATER. I hate oil, maily bacause almost a $ Trillion, yes thats a T, goes overseas, and its disgusting and causes asthma, which i have. but i dont think Kyoto protocol will help US at all. The DOE under the CURRENT BUSH administration has actual PLANS to reduce our dependency on foreign fuels by 30% by 2010. A big part of this plan is bio-fuels, mainly ethanol and bidiesel, which has huge energy and tax bills being passed recently. we dont need other countries telling us what we can and cant do, we have enough educated people in this country to figure out whats best for us.

Same here, reduce emissions but use real data, not data with an agenda. Kyoto's agenda is to raise 3rd world economies by restraining Americas economy. There are better ways to accomplish the end goal. China has become a major competitor, both in manufacturing and for energy resources. Their manufacturing cost are low because of a large supply of cheap labor, virtually no environmental requirements, military control of primary industries and a command and control political system. The US can compete on a level playing field but not under Kyoto.

As for our dependancy on foreign fuels I'm glad Bush has a plan unlike Kerry's campaign promises that had nothing behind them. What most don't realize is that it's not just oil but that we import a majority gasoline and maybe even natural gas. Some of this is self imposed by not-in-my-backyard mentality. Some simply by increased demand as a households add appliances, computers, etc. The amount of $ flooding the world financial system will cause us problems down the road, a very short road.
 

LostInBoston

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p m said:
Could you share, please?

When water is shocked with electrodes, it gets split into hydrogen and oxygen. the hydrogen can then be used in a slightly modified gas engine. the hydrogen contains more energy then what was used to produce it. i saw a demenstration, but have not yet done it.
 

Blue

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LostInBoston said:
When water is shocked with electrodes, it gets split into hydrogen and oxygen. the hydrogen can then be used in a slightly modified gas engine. the hydrogen contains more energy then what was used to produce it. i saw a demenstration, but have not yet done it.

Tthis is nothing new. The trick is developing the working application.
 
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Kyle

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Look , all I know is that very soon a new joint will be opening "Two Guys Auto Sales" and it will be Kerry and Gore wearing big funny hats and selling LR3s.....
 

Blue

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Kyle said:
Look , all I know is that very soon a new joint will be opening "Two Guys Auto Sales" and it will be Kerry and Gore wearing big funny hats and selling LR3s.....

I think old Al is living in a padded room now.....
 

p m

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LostInBoston said:
the hydrogen contains more energy then what was used to produce it.

ROTFLMAO - this is by far the funniest shit I heard on DW.
So, we can use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, burn'em together to produce more electricity to split more water into hydrogen and oxygen, etc.?

Tthis is nothing new. The trick is developing the working application.
Yeah, people have been in the quest for perpetuum mobile for quite some time now.
 
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Greg P

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p m said:
ROTFLMAO - this is by far the funniest shit I heard on DW.
So, we can use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, burn'em together to produce more electricity to split more water into hydrogen and oxygen, etc.?


Yeah, people have been in the quest for perpetuum mobile for quite some time now.


Surely you are kidding. My first thought is to say, "yeah, it's called electrolysis, dumbass." However, I can't tell from simply reading your post if you are serious or just joking here, so I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt.
 

LostInBoston

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p m said:
ROTFLMAO - this is by far the funniest shit I heard on DW.
So, we can use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, burn'em together to produce more electricity to split more water into hydrogen and oxygen, etc.?


Yeah, people have been in the quest for perpetuum mobile for quite some time now.

Um NO, actually thats not how it works. There is an energy content in water, Hydrogen and Oxygen both contain energy. More energy is extracted then is used. Maybe that clears it up.
 
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Greg P

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I think the process in a car also involves the use of a hydrogen fuel cell for powering the electric motor, and for spliting the water to replenish the hydrogen.

Still a ways off, but in progress.
 

LostInBoston

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Greg P said:
I think the process in a car also involves the use of a hydrogen fuel cell for powering the electric motor, and for spliting the water to replenish the hydrogen.

Still a ways off, but in progress.

A hydrogen fuel cell is completely different. A fuel cell extracts the energy from differnt substances using a chemical process. The process i was describing is using hydrogen extracted from water to fuel a gasoline engine.
 
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Kyle

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Are you all trying to say that Kerry will be selling cars that have alternative fuel ? Man , if thats the case , the shit dont need to work , it jsut needs to sound good... :D
 
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Greg P

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LostInBoston said:
A hydrogen fuel cell is completely different. A fuel cell extracts the energy from differnt substances using a chemical process. The process i was describing is using hydrogen extracted from water to fuel a gasoline engine.


Oh, what I was reading was a process of electrolysis whereby the hydrogen based fuel cell would provide electric current to a water tank to split into hydrogen/oxygen. The hydrogen is then used to replace used hydrogen in the fuel cell. The same fuel cell would also be used to power the electric motor of the vehicle, so there would be no gas emissions to the environment.

Not sure if it will come to light or not, but it is something else being worked on.
 

Eric N.

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Actually I think they already have a couple of cars running on it and even a fill up station or two... Saw it on the Discovery channel..