What If?

p m

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Back in April of 2013, a few miles from Hanksville but already on dirt, I heard a slight tapping from my D1's engine.
Everyone I asked about it laughed me off, saying there just wasn't anything that is called "tapping" in Land Rover world.
Five hours later, in Fishlake Nat'l Forest, the tapping was loud enough for everyone to be concerned. It sounded almost exactly like an early rod knock, so I spent a miserable cold night thinking - what would I do if it ends up rod knock? Our campsite was about 65 miles from the nearest service station.

The morning start-up had this knock loud and clear. I asked the gang for some gear oil - a quart added to the crankcase could boost the oil pressure just enough for me to get out. Nobody had it, but Jason Rose had a bottle of Lucas engine oil goo; I dumped it into the engine, and discovered that the knock was still there, completely unaffected.
So, it ended up... a failed bearing on the power steering pump, far lesser offender yet equally debilitating. I had a 384-mile flat tow from Salina to St. George, Utah, and a next-morning successful search for a used pump which lasted me exactly till San Diego, and died right there.

With this in mind, I thought we could use a thread or even a section devoted to field fixes. Not full repairs, but fixes allowing one to get home or at least to a properly equipped shop.

Here's what I dreamed up that 6-degree night at 9000 feet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod knock.

Severity:
very high; a loose bottom rod bearing will eventually destroy the bearing shells, the crank journal, and cause overall loss of oil pressure and potential catastrophic engine failure.

Diagnostics: difficult to tell bottom-end knock from wrist pin knock, and difficult to tell from many other noises. The only one that's easy to check is the broken substrate in the catalytic converter, which can be confirmed or disproved by a hard whack by a heavy mallet (or one's foot).
One way to diagnose it is to disconnect spark plug wires, one by one; a missing spark in the affected cylinder should make the tapping less pronounced.
Ultimately, you need to drain oil, dump the pan, remove the spark plugs, and shake every rod vigorously - front to rear and up and down. Any noticeable up/down play is grounds to removal of the rod cap.

Field fix: if a loose rod bearing is found, the way to extend its remaining short life is to alleviate mechanical load on it.
At a minimum: disconnect and short to the ground the spark plug wire.
Better: disconnect and short to the ground the spark plug wire, and remove the spark plug. The downside is unburnt mixture dumped both to the exhaust manifold and outside through the spark plug hole - exhaust venting back through the spark plug hole may ignite the mixture.
Better yet: disconnect and short to the ground the spark plug wire, remove the spark plug, and disconnect the fuel injector from harness. It works differently for 14CUX and GEMS/Bosch - the last two pulse individual injectors, while 14CUX flashes them in fours, side to side.
Better yet: all of the above, + pull the valve cover, take off the rocker arms shaft, and remove two pushrods that control the valves in the affected cylinder. I don't know what'll happen to the tappets left floating - they will likely bounce up and will occasionally slide down and be smacked by the camshaft.
Best: all of the above, + pull the oil pan, remove the rod cap on the affected cylinder, and pad the bearing shells. This is a really old-time fix and it doesn't last a very long time, but it allows to close the gap on the affected cylinder and keep up the oil pressure.
You'll need some aluminum foil - candy wrappers work, and a file. It helps to know the thickness of the foil, but you could guess - and file a few thousandths of an inch off the ends of the (beat up) bearing half-shells. Cut the foil rectangles that would cover the most of the outside surface of the shell, place them into the rod/rod cap bed, place shaved shells on top of them, and torque down the rod cap bolts.

Upping the engine oil viscosity will help regardless of the measures above - we rarely carry straight 50-weight oil, so half a quart of gear oil is a good start.
Keep in mind that non-serpentine-belt engines are less tolerant of very viscous oil - the pump is driven by a distributor shaft.

Please chime in, I'll gladly edit or delete it if you think it is completely bonkers.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,768
1,039
Northern Illinois
That all sounds like great fun out in the field. I would just unplug the injector since its a Disco 1 that would be pretty easy, then try to drive it out to a waiting trailer. Tow straps are great in situations like you describe.
 

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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That all sounds like great fun out in the field. I would just unplug the injector since its a Disco 1 that would be pretty easy, then try to drive it out to a waiting trailer. Tow straps are great in situations like you describe.
Yes, Stew.
But I've had several thousands of miles of single-vehicle trips in the last three years, in places without much traffic.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,768
1,039
Northern Illinois
Yes, Stew.
But I've had several thousands of miles of single-vehicle trips in the last three years, in places without much traffic.
I would try to dig a hole and put the disco in the hole before I would try to fix that kind of shit in the field. What I’ve learned from listening to that is off-roading is most definitely a team sport
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
262
Indy
Here's what I dreamed up that 6-degree night at 9000 feet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod knock.

Severity: very high; a loose bottom rod bearing will eventually destroy the bearing shells, the crank journal, and cause overall loss of oil pressure and potential catastrophic engine failure.

Diagnostics: difficult to tell bottom-end knock from wrist pin knock, and difficult to tell from many other noises. The only one that's easy to check is the broken substrate in the catalytic converter, which can be confirmed or disproved by a hard whack by a heavy mallet (or one's foot).
One way to diagnose it is to disconnect spark plug wires, one by one; a missing spark in the affected cylinder should make the tapping less pronounced.
Ultimately, you need to drain oil, dump the pan, remove the spark plugs, and shake every rod vigorously - front to rear and up and down. Any noticeable up/down play is grounds to removal of the rod cap.

Field fix: Push rig off cliff, call insurance.
 

4Runner

Well-known member
May 24, 2007
707
138
Boise Idaho
I am not sure about fixing that in the field. Probably pulling a spark plug and limping it ( off a cliff) to a pick up spot is what I would shoot for. Maybe carrying a long block in the back for spare parts? But to be serious PM, if you’re willing to drop the pan in the field then I would just have spare oil pan gasket, sealant and a couple of new rod bearings whatever size you’re running and a 10 over that. I feel that might be a better short term fix to get you somewhere. I think it’s great to through out hypotheticals to see what we come up with.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,768
1,039
Northern Illinois
…I think it’s great to through out hypotheticals to see what we come up with.
Still all I can come up with is don’t go way out there alone. Cause it would take me a really long time to dig a hole big enough to hide that broken Disco. I would bolt some LED light bar on it so they don’t come looking for any of us. That’s a Jeep thing.
 
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p m

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But to be serious PM, if you’re willing to drop the pan in the field then I would just have spare oil pan gasket, sealant and a couple of new rod bearings whatever size you’re running and a 10 over that. I feel that might be a better short term fix to get you somewhere. I think it’s great to through out hypotheticals to see what we come up with.
D1/RRC oil pan doesn't need a gasket, only a bead of RightStuff or something similar.
A couple of new bearing shells is a good thing, but by the time you hear the rod knock the crank journal will already be damaged. The only benefit of those is to keep oil pressure up, but they'll only last if there's no load.

About being willing to drop the pan and/or valve cover - it is a lot easier than to take apart a front corner to fish out a grenaded CV joint. It isn't that big of a deal, just you have to wait for the engine to cool off.

Stew's suggestion of pulling the connector off an injector is a very good one. Don't know if it'll work for 14CUX as well for GEMS/Bosch.
It is all a speculation, but - if you really go the full route with unloading the affected bearing, you might be able to drive for several hundred miles.
Probably 3/4 of 14CUX trucks are running on 7 cylinders max, anyway.
 
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discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,768
1,039
Northern Illinois
And remember to “ leave no trace” so you have to pack out whatever you packed in. Lol
We’ll I personally have been thru the leave no trace program. Burying a Disco would not fit that mindset. Neither would taking the Disco out there in the first place. Land Rover says tread lightly, leaving no trace is not going to happen. More like custom landscaping by 4Runner and Stew.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,951
478
Darien Gap
On a Tdi you could crack off the injector line of the offending cylinder at the pump and just let it dribble. If concerned about range you could instead rig a hose to a collection vessel to reuse the diesel.
 

Disco95

Well-known member
Mar 20, 2020
51
22
Portland, OR
Back in April of 2013, a few miles from Hanksville but already on dirt, I heard a slight tapping from my D1's engine.
Everyone I asked about it laughed me off, saying there just wasn't anything that is called "tapping" in Land Rover world.
Five hours later, in Fishlake Nat'l Forest, the tapping was loud enough for everyone to be concerned. It sounded almost exactly like an early rod knock, so I spent a miserable cold night thinking - what would I do if it ends up rod knock? Our campsite was about 65 miles from the nearest service station.

The morning start-up had this knock loud and clear. I asked the gang for some gear oil - a quart added to the crankcase could boost the oil pressure just enough for me to get out. Nobody had it, but Jason Rose had a bottle of Lucas engine oil goo; I dumped it into the engine, and discovered that the knock was still there, completely unaffected.
So, it ended up... a failed bearing on the power steering pump, far lesser offender yet equally debilitating. I had a 384-mile flat tow from Salina to St. George, Utah, and a next-morning successful search for a used pump which lasted me exactly till San Diego, and died right there.

With this in mind, I thought we could use a thread or even a section devoted to field fixes. Not full repairs, but fixes allowing one to get home or at least to a properly equipped shop.

Here's what I dreamed up that 6-degree night at 9000 feet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod knock.

Severity:
very high; a loose bottom rod bearing will eventually destroy the bearing shells, the crank journal, and cause overall loss of oil pressure and potential catastrophic engine failure.

Diagnostics: difficult to tell bottom-end knock from wrist pin knock, and difficult to tell from many other noises. The only one that's easy to check is the broken substrate in the catalytic converter, which can be confirmed or disproved by a hard whack by a heavy mallet (or one's foot).
One way to diagnose it is to disconnect spark plug wires, one by one; a missing spark in the affected cylinder should make the tapping less pronounced.
Ultimately, you need to drain oil, dump the pan, remove the spark plugs, and shake every rod vigorously - front to rear and up and down. Any noticeable up/down play is grounds to removal of the rod cap.

Field fix: if a loose rod bearing is found, the way to extend its remaining short life is to alleviate mechanical load on it.
At a minimum: disconnect and short to the ground the spark plug wire.
Better: disconnect and short to the ground the spark plug wire, and remove the spark plug. The downside is unburnt mixture dumped both to the exhaust manifold and outside through the spark plug hole - exhaust venting back through the spark plug hole may ignite the mixture.
Better yet: disconnect and short to the ground the spark plug wire, remove the spark plug, and disconnect the fuel injector from harness. It works differently for 14CUX and GEMS/Bosch - the last two pulse individual injectors, while 14CUX flashes them in fours, side to side.
Better yet: all of the above, + pull the valve cover, take off the rocker arms shaft, and remove two pushrods that control the valves in the affected cylinder. I don't know what'll happen to the tappets left floating - they will likely bounce up and will occasionally slide down and be smacked by the camshaft.
Best: all of the above, + pull the oil pan, remove the rod cap on the affected cylinder, and pad the bearing shells. This is a really old-time fix and it doesn't last a very long time, but it allows to close the gap on the affected cylinder and keep up the oil pressure.
You'll need some aluminum foil - candy wrappers work, and a file. It helps to know the thickness of the foil, but you could guess - and file a few thousandths of an inch off the ends of the (beat up) bearing half-shells. Cut the foil rectangles that would cover the most of the outside surface of the shell, place them into the rod/rod cap bed, place shaved shells on top of them, and torque down the rod cap bolts.

Upping the engine oil viscosity will help regardless of the measures above - we rarely carry straight 50-weight oil, so half a quart of gear oil is a good start.
Keep in mind that non-serpentine-belt engines are less tolerant of very viscous oil - the pump is driven by a distributor shaft.

Please chime in, I'll gladly edit or delete it if you think it is completely bonkers.
I’m more interested in the other question you’re adventure raised—getting home with a busted PS pump. I guess that’s one downside to the serpentine belt setup. An o/w no big deal/kinda annoying deal like a/c or PS pulley can end the party. We drove our Volvo 240 for months with both aux belts off.

Seems like routing around the PS and/or A/C would be possible with the right emergency shorty belt, right?

Cheers,
joe
pdx or
 

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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www.3rj.org
I’m more interested in the other question you’re adventure raised—getting home with a busted PS pump. I guess that’s one downside to the serpentine belt setup. An o/w no big deal/kinda annoying deal like a/c or PS pulley can end the party. We drove our Volvo 240 for months with both aux belts off.

Seems like routing around the PS and/or A/C would be possible with the right emergency shorty belt, right?
The simplest deal with the p/s pump is ... to have a spare p/s pump. It takes just as much volume as a spare non-standard belt.
A/C compressor can be bypassed - it's been a while since I've seen what's needed for it.
Now that you mentioned this - a small bearing in the tensioner pulley can just as easily stop you in your tracks. It's one of the things in my spares kid on a long trip.
 
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Having wheeled with a spare transfer case and another time with a power steering gearbox, I don't like to carry spares!

W/R/T remove the pushrods, be very careful. If a lifter decides to go on walkabout, you'd lose ALL oil pressure and putting it back would require patience of job or removing the intake.

Gary Grey has an uncle who was on safari in Namibia (then Western South Africa) with two other gentlemen and motorcycles. They burned the number six piston in the 109 they were driving-sadly all too common on that engine. All three took off in different directions looking for anything that might help. One of them returned with a wooden fence post. They whittled it down and drove it into the cylinder with an axe and drove it throughout Namibia all the way home to Jo-berg!
 
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With this in mind, I thought we could use a thread or even a section devoted to field fixes. Not full repairs, but fixes allowing one to get home or at least to a properly equipped shop.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brake line/caliper failures.

I have read TOO many accounts of folks losing brake hydraulics for any of a number of reasons. It seems the preferred method of "Repair" is to cut a hardline, bend it back over on itself and smash it together and hope for the best...

A MUCH simpler method is to remove the bleed screw from the caliper in the affected circuit and find the next female fitting upstream of the problem. Unscrew the pipe/hose, insert the bleed screw, top off the brake fluid and limp home with one fewer working caliper.

If one is fortunate enough to have a spare flex line, this works wonderfully as well!

I came up with this when removing a caliper from a truck and not wanting to have brake fluid all over the shop floor!
 

p m

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Gary Grey has an uncle who was on safari in Namibia (then Western South Africa) with two other gentlemen and motorcycles. They burned the number six piston in the 109 they were driving-sadly all too common on that engine. All three took off in different directions looking for anything that might help. One of them returned with a wooden fence post. They whittled it down and drove it into the cylinder with an axe and drove it throughout Namibia all the way home to Jo-berg!
That's exactly the kind of a bush fix I am talking about.
 
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