What is with Kerry...?

[RBBailey]

I really don't understand this. How can Kerry be preaching in one church after another, and not one person says anything about how two-faced it is when we all know he does not go to church regularly - he's just using these churches for his political purposes. But more than that, over the past two weeks alone he has actually preached!

Let me ask you Democrats out there: what would you say if Bush did that?

Be honest now; you would be crying about the so called "separation of church and state" and how he is just using the church to get out his political vote. And there would be special in-depth reports on whether or not churches should be allowed to keep their tax exempt status if they even hint at asking people to vote Republican, let alone letting the Republican candidate preach?!!?

And what about the supremely democratic actions of Danny DeVeto, et al, in Florida; blocking entrance to the polls for anyone voting Republican?

 

[Eric N.]

ya, pretty funny isn't it.... He'll do anything to get your vote and that's all he wants.

 

[Kyle]

Dude is a car salesman , uh , I mean , "Sales guide"... He aint even bright enough to mask it at all..

 

[LostInBoston]

And what about the supremely democratic actions of Danny DeVeto, et al, in Florida; blocking entrance to the polls for anyone voting Republican?

LOL, i would love to see him try and block me. It would be a great excuse to punch him in the face.

 

[Veneficus]

Interesting, I just joined this forum and this post gives me a quick general idea about LR owners as opposed to my other forums.

LR owners = Bush
S2000 owners = Kerry
Scion owners = Kerry

Of course there are people who don't fall into that generalization, but so far it seems like a good gander on my part.

 

[rovercanus]

Interesting, I just joined this forum and this post gives me a quick general idea about LR owners as opposed to my other forums.

LR owners = Bush
S2000 owners = Kerry
Scion owners = Kerry

If there were somebody better then Kerry I'd vote for 'em.
Looks like we're stuck with Bush.
He kinda reminds me of Cartman trying to act retarded.

 

[KEJ]

Ben, according to tonight's national news, Kerry was ASKED to speak at those churches. Though I'm quite certain he feels it's to his benefit to speak there, what would people say if he'd declined? Both sides are vote-whoring, it's the name of the twisted game.

Discoweb is a microcosm of our society. Sometimes I find it scary, to be honest. Everyone hears what they want to hear and disregards the rest, to paraphrase Paul Simon. Eight more miserable days...and then some, if it's close.

KJ

 

[Veneficus]

Well I already voted since Pima County where I live has a mail in ballot. I also wish there was a better choice between the two main front runners. Like McCain...

 

[NVRover]

How can Kerry be preaching in one church after another

Notice how none of them are Catholic churches? Kerry is Catholic but apparently has been turned away due to his position on certain social issues.

 

[RBBailey]

Ben, according to tonight's national news, Kerry was ASKED to speak at those churches. Though I'm quite certain he feels it's to his benefit to speak there, what would people say if he'd declined? Both sides are vote-whoring, it's the name of the twisted game.

KJ

I suppose if Sharpton and Jackson invited me to speak, I would probably take the invitation seriously. But that is not my point, my point is the double standard; the use of religion and church for political expediency. If Bush did this it would be splashed all over the front pages as being dangerously close to echos of Nazi use of legend and out-of-context Biblical refferences to stop blacks and jews from voting. Or some other non-sense like that. Not to mention the DNC TV ads that would start popping up again, "If George Bush is elected, black chruches in the south will burn..."

It really makes me sick that people fall for this junk. This poison is so prevelant in our society tha when I make it known that I attend church, I regularly get seemingly intelligent people, with pity and sorrow in their eyes, asking me, "Are you really a racist?" or "Does your pastor really tell you to hate gays?"

 

[GregH]

This poison is so prevelant in our society tha when I make it known that I attend church, I regularly get seemingly intelligent people, with pity and sorrow in their eyes, asking me, "Are you really a racist?" or "Does your pastor really tell you to hate gays?"

LOL-Invite them to come with you and hear what really goes on! It's an opportunity if they are truly interested.

 

[antichrist]

Ben, according to tonight's national news, Kerry was ASKED to speak at those churches. Though I'm quite certain he feels it's to his benefit to speak there, what would people say if he'd declined? Both sides are vote-whoring, it's the name of the twisted game.
snip

"vote-whoring"...well put. The far right in the country sure didn't complain about the moral majority. I clearly remember republicans speaking in churches.
It doesn't bother me at all. I have no problem politicians practicing their faith, or pretending to faith. It's when they try to impose their "morality", or lack thereof, on me that I have issues.


Veneficus, McCain probably wouldn't make it to the election. Don't forget he lost the primary in South Carolina because Karl Rove's folks started the rumor he had an illegitimate black child, a double whammy for a person in SC.

 

[KEJ]

Ben said: "But that is not my point, my point is the double standard; the use of religion and church for political expediency. If Bush did this it would be splashed all over the front pages"

Ben, Bush said he did not consult with his biological father, the last American president who fought a war with Iraq, before he took us to war in Iraq. Instead, he said he consulted with his "Heavenly Father" and concluded God wanted him to go to war with Iraq. I guess he just leap-frogged right over church and religion and went to the Big Man mano-a-mano. Someone else doing the same might be called a religious zealot, or if they lived on the street and said they talked to God they might be medicated. I listened to an hour's interview with two investigative reporters on NPR last week and it was very disturbing. Among other things, they said some current and past Bush staffers are so disturbed by the President's decision-making being based on his religious bent that they are coming to these reporters to get that word out. I find this deeply disturbing, but not surprising given some of the decisions he's made in the face of the data and learned advice he seems to ignore. You can listen to this interview on streaming audio if you like. I'll look it up and post the link.

Faith is one thing, but doesn't God help those who help themselves? If you have faith that the bus will not run you over, and step in front of it and get flattened, have you helped yourself? Having faith and having a given belief about a situation doesn't make it true.

KJ

 

[KEJ]

Here is the link that will lead you to the audio of the program I mentioned above:

http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/04/10/20.php

KJ

 

[RBBailey]

Karen, I think you are again missing my point. I'm not talking about the decision making process of one or the other. If Bush is truely that religious, then more power to him. I'm talking about the way people treat the appearance of faith, especially when JFK is obviously using these black churches to get the vote.

I like the idea of Bush, or any president, actually taking the time to stop and pray before making a decision about actually going to war. Yes, even if he or she happened to be muslim or jewish - it speaks to the ideal that "I am not perfect, I need help in making the decision even if I am president." It is a humility that is rarely seen in such high office.

And notice, the question wasn't, "did he consult others?" It was did he consult his father - Bush took that opportunity to say, no, not Geo. H. W. Bush, but...

If this type of religious thought process really worries you, then you shouldn't vote for Kerry, because if he is doing this church hopping out of sincerety, if this is actually what he does on a regular basis - like he wants us to believe - then he will probably be the most carismatic and prayerful president we have ever had. You should really be voting for Nader.

Again, it's not religion that I am talking about, it is the false representation of it to get votes that I really distain.

 

[utahdog2003]

Interesting, I just joined this forum and this post gives me a quick general idea about LR owners as opposed to my other forums.

LR owners = Bush
S2000 owners = Kerry
Scion owners = Kerry

Of course there are people who don't fall into that generalization, but so far it seems like a good gander on my part.

I'd bust Disco Web addicts down to percentages like this...

80% - Bored conservatives (who just happen to own LRs) with nothing to do at work other than bitch about the crooked liberals.
10% - Bored liberals (who just happen to own LRs) with nothing to do at work other than bitch about the crooked conservatives.
5% - Bored LR owners who wish it were Nov 3rd, the whole shmeel was over, and we could get back to arguing about how running a Detroit with stock shafts is brainless.
4.9% - Political Nutbags from both parties who just can't help but throw gas on these fires whenever they smell 'em smoldering.
0.1% - Me...the bored LR owner who wishes it were Nov 3rd, the whole shmeel was over....Still waiting for somebody to tell me if I can run JATE rings with a TJM T17...

raging venom has tempered my sense of comraderie in the LR brand...

 

[utahdog2003]

I regularly get seemingly intelligent people, with pity and sorrow in their eyes, asking me, "Are you really a racist?" or "Does your pastor really tell you to hate gays?"

what!? just for going to church!? do you fly from Oregon to the swamps of Louisianna to go to church?!?

maybe they know something about your church you do not?

 

[KEJ]

Ben, we can agree to disagree and acknowledge that we come from different viewpoints. We'd best not get into examining the candidates' every perceived hypocrisy or we'll never get anything done today. Still, I'll side with the man who says he has personal beliefs that he prefers not to mandate to others, whether he really holds those beliefs or not. The man who believes and seeks to make us all step-to is the one that troubles me. I would further submit to you that if you fear "false representations" then there is no one to vote for.

KJ

 

[p m]

Still, I'll side with the man who says he has personal beliefs that he prefers not to mandate to others, whether he really holds those beliefs or not.

Karen, an excellent example. If a person doesn't really hold what he says his beliefs are, how do you know if he's not going to mandate whatever his current mood swing is?

 

[Meisterbr?wn]

Ben,
Kerry (and W) give speeches all over the place: college campuses, factories, restaurants, rallies etc. A chuch is just one more example of a good place to get out your message. If you don't think W has ever given a political speech to a congregation then you're nuts. Furthermore, it has not and will not come up as a separation of church and state issue. Going to church, giving a speach at chuch or any place of worship is not a violation of the separation of church and state.

Now if GW (or Kerry for that matter) wanted to build churches with taxpayer money - that would be a different issue.

Bush interjects a TON of his religion in speeches and his decisions but no one has ever told him to "shut up". That would be a violation of our 1st Ammendment. Using churches to reach out to voters of faith makes good campaign sense - no matter which party you support.