What is with Kerry...?

[KEJ]

Paul, check your mail again. I'm sending you a cyber turd. Have a nice day your own self!

KJ

 

[GotRovr]

KJ is right, G.W. didn't consult with his Dad, Big George probably just told his son after 9/11, now's our chance go get that SOB

 

[Shawn M]

And I always thought Jr went after Saddam because he put a hit out on Senior.

Don't Texans take that sort of stuff seriously?

 

[Kyle]

What bush cant say is that sooner or later somsone would have had to do it. The nature of some people is to put that shit off and put it off until one day it bites them in the ass and then they whine because nothing was done sooner. However , Bush cant say that either , can he ? Unfortunately some people need rational reassoning to deal with an irational person. A side affect of this is that they vote people just like them into office and we get blow jobs and stained dresses as the daily news instead of a known pain in the ass being removed.... Karen , this was brought up in another thread and then no one wanted to repond anymore. Forget the WMD , forget the attacks on us , forget everything accept the law that was supposed to watch over the actions of Saddum after the last war. Did he break those laws ? What should have been done ?
This shit drives me nutty when I hear Americans saying it.. Like it was going to just go away and nothing should have ever been done with him. What does that tell the world ? What does that do for your safety here ? What does a show of force do for those ? YOu dont think people see whats going on and take note ? I see it as something that would have to been done sooner or later. A secondary bonus was that it showed we werent just about blow jobs and stained dresses... However , if you like soap operas I guess you would rather that...

 

[KEJ]

Nothing like scattering your forces and making sure nothing get accomplished, eh? How about you take things one step at a time, get the job done, and move on? We knew Al Qaeda had safe habor in Afghanistan, so we went in. That worked for me, seemed to make sense, went right to the source, etc. We barely got that project started and we bled into Iraq, for reasons that seemed to make little sense. We have a bare-bones sized military, and are under-gunned in terms of equipment. WHY take on TWO wars at once, as well as simultaneously supposedly beefing-up the protection of our borders our ports and the rest of the country? Who's ass is big enough to pull out THAT magic trick? There was nothing pressing about "taking out Saddam" other than our current president had a personal chat with God. Perhaps dealing with Al Qeada in a decisive way would have sent a clear message to the rest of the "evil doers", a la the example brought up in another thread of how Khadaffi got quieted down. It might have meant that we WOULDN'T have had to go into another war. Of course, logic and reason were given short shrift and here we are, in a cluster-fuck that's just getting worse. Congress asked over and over before they gave the president approval to go to war what the exit strategy was. There never WAS one. They were convinced this war was necessary and gave approval, now it's being waged in a very dubious fashion. Our troops don't have what they need to fight effectively, or in as safe a manner for themselves. These National Guardsman are not trained to the standards as regular military, they are more equiped to deal with natural disasters. Dump them into a war zone with their unarmored trucks and it's no wonder they mutiny.

Congress can give approval for war, but they can't control the strategy once it gets started. And NEVER before has there been a mandated black-out of news on casualties, and a ban on pictures of returning coffins. The doctors treating the casualties tell VERY different stories about the numbers of Americans severely maimed than the administration wants the public to know. Even Rumsfeld, who along with Tom Ridge are curiously absent in past months, asked whether we are killing the terrorists faster than they are recruiting new ones. It seems they fear they might be hatching faster than we can kill them off.

So, you tell me if this was the best order in which to go about dealing with these problems. Saddam was an emasculated little wad, at best, and would have sat nicely on the shelf for as long as we needed him to. We could have dealt with him later, if need be, but now we're not effectively dealing with anything.

KJ

 

[GotRovr]

The sad reality is that in the Book of World Affairs, the chapter on Global Test was flushed down the toilet by G.W. himself. It had to be. That is the American Way. Don't fix it until it breaks. Kerry or some other Demo would still be asking France or the UN for permission. It's only sad for those who don't want to really understand the American way, It's called "Pay Back" baby. Cry if you must for the loss of a few brave soldiers fighting for the very freedom that they were sworn to protect and the same very freedom that was lost by those of 9/11. Now pay back is where Bush steps up to the plate and tries to take out Osama and the Al Queers. Not completely satisfied with his Pay Back appetite, he decides to go after the next SOB on the evil totem pole. And who do you think was next after Sadam. That Libyan Ahole. Well he caved in and pretty fast mind you didn't he. Now where was France, Germany, China and the UN for that matter in all of this. They were to financially tied up with Sadam to want to kick him out and to jealeous that we would have initial control of the oil and re-building contracts.... too bad. As for the UN, we now know their motivation to stone wall our Pay Back effort, the old corrupt Oil for Food Program. As for Iraq's WMD's, you, I, Clinton, and Bush really know that Sadam would eventually develop these terrible weapons and the Al Queer connection is all to apparent. I'm still wanting more Pay Back. I would offer my services to this Great Country if it wasn't for my age. So instead I offer my pocket book. My annual tax burden is greater than the average policeman's salary. I will get my monies worth when I see that Al Zaqawi dudes' head on a stick. Don't worry, there will be another evil dude to take his place, just like the prairy dogs keep sticking their heads out of a hole, one by one. We must remain resolute in our pursuit to rid this evil once and for all by keeping our guns pointed down at their homes and at their front yards, and keep the pressure on them and not wait for a second 9/11.

 

[MarkP]

but now we're not effectively dealing with anything.

Still listening to the lame steam media I see. Hope you don't believe the New York Times.

http://www.belmontclub.blogspot.com/ has a couple of good reads: The Tuesday and Wednesday articles on the mssing RDX and Mondays War Plan Orange. The last 5 paragraphs of War Plan Orange should give you a good perspective on our troops, those troops that have so little.

Al Qaeda is being delt with effectively, in Iraq and around the world. I beleive we have killed like 75% of the identified ones, again in Iraq. The other part of the strategy is to change the Middle East forever. Remember reading about the schools in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia that cultivated hate? They were cultivating a lot more radicals and terrorist than the current insurgents. Left unchecked this would have been a continuous source of terrorism. Do you really think Kerry and the UN would have addressed this? The UN's Oil-for-Food corruption shows how flawed this line of thought is. The Global Test was how much money would it take to pay them off. And where did this money go? To the terrorist states like Iran and Syria.

 

[Kyle]

Karen , I wonder where you get this shit. Years and years ago with basic weapons technology we had men fighting in how many places at one time ? Why suddenly do you believe the US cannot handle the situation its in now there in two areas that are in close proximity ? I find myself asking this alot these days but are you really thinking about what you are typing ? We are outgunned ? Have you lost your damn mind ? lack of ability is the least of our problems , doing what needs to be done with minimal fallout is much much tougher and much more tedious. You know , just like the same reason they put cut outs of "Innocents" in fire fight training... It would be much easier to just bail in and cap anything witha heart beat..
Its funy how the power of suggestion works. You can just introduce an idea and people run with it like they were standing there and saw it themself... Barely got the "Project started" ??????????? Again ,are you thinking about this crap before it leaves your PC ? Since dead men tell no tales you really cant ask but saying it was barely started is somewhat rediculous....... I think the landscape has been changed in that country as well as its future..... I cant even get into this with you if these are your true thoughts. Its interesting but you are obviously out of touch with reality.... However , ya probably want to stop supporting Kerry with such talk , if thats the basis on which he should be elected , its fairly frightening "logic"..... Its good for a laugh though..... I said it somewhere before , I am sure there were people just like you that said the exact same things when we were spread out all over the globe kicking someones ass in each place...

 

[Eric N.]

KEJ - "We have a bare-bones sized military, and are under-gunned in terms of equipment."

Karen... It's not that we are under-gunned.. We have enough fire power to level the whole damn country without using nukes. The problem is that we care about the civilians where as the people fighting us don't... They will launch RPGs at crowds of their own kids where as we are trying to just kill the bad guys.. We could easily just call in air strikes and burn the whole village down killing everyone.. That's the difference and the problem all at the same time... We have morals and they don't.. We have rules of engagment where as they are fire on anyone and who cares..

They kill and prey on civilians that have nothing to do with any of this.. Cutting peoples heads off... WTF.. I hate to say this but, we really need to start getting tough on them and burning whole towns to the ground.. Bet you the civis start either handing over the location to all the terrorist or well, then they aren't civis anymore then are they..

I think the phrase from the old tee shirts should be applied right about now..

Kill them all, let god sort them out!!!!



Those weekend warriors that refused to do their jobs should be kicked out and jailed for the rest of their lives.. They could have killed their fellow soldiers by not holding up their end.. It would be a sad, sad day if those cowards where carring ammo and we had some soldiers run out and die cause they didn't want to go.


edit - Damn Kyle types fast.... Beat me to it..

 

[Kyle]

Its frightening that people actually believe that shit Eric , damn frightening. We are outgunned in terms of equipment by Afganistan and Iraq.... I suppose thats why we walked through both countries like going to get a gallon of Milk and did it with mucho restraint..... I too agree on leveling a few "Villages" here and there to get the point acrost.. Some people only understand one thing.... Apparently Karen thinks we dont have the ability as we are outgunned.... Wonder what news report that was on!!!!!!!! Holy shit !!!

 

[RBBailey]

OH NOOOOO... Don't get me started on the electoral college - yet another example of bad education.

I bet if you believe we should get rid of the electoral college you probably think we live in a democracy - right? Should I educate you? Or can you guys go out and do the research on the history, reasoning, and protection the electoral college gives us, and why it should be revised, but not discarded?

Holy Cow! It's like I'm teaching two classes on American Government, one in the classroom, one on the web. Although, the one on DWeb is nice because I can actually express my political opinions too!

 

[Eric N.]

Ya, cause they made so many improvements to their millitary since desert storm..

My only question is are they handing out RPGs at the local 7-11 or some thing.. God damn, it's like they get 3 when they are old enough to crawl.. Shit... Man. I have to get a class 3 FFL license to get a freakin auto and they get f'n RPGs for their 4th bday...

 

[LostInBoston]

SOyou think we are outguned? yet your voting for someone that has done nothing but vote AGAINST supporting the millitary and intelligence over his entire career. where doyou think all of our troops went? 3/4 of a million were eliminated during the clinotn administration as well as manyother thinkgs essential to kicking ass. I think it too about a day to gain air superiority though over Iraq. I htink there are possibly millions more willing to fight. I know i was one of them. 2 years ago i signed up for the marine corp OCS program. which mean that in a year and a half when i graduate i would be an officer in the Marine Corp, unfortunatly i was denied because of my asthma, even though at the time i was a D1 varisty rower.

an interesting link
http://www.ashleysstory.com

note that it was NOT paid for or authorized by Bush.

now im going to get back to drinking beer and watching the game.

 

[KEJ]

It's pretty simple boys, the Generals asked for more troops and were denied them. Anyone remember Rummy saying this would be a high-tech war and we didn't NEED as many warm bodies out there? Bullshit, it was destined to go to fighting in the streets, everyone knew that before we got there. There's a reason many in the military cannot retire as they'd planned (like several of my customers, who tell me their stories), we don't have enough people. It's not the same as in the World Wars when our citizens felt the IMMINENT threat and signed up in droves. So, we throw out these part-timers with the unarmored trucks they brought from their suburbs, contaminated fuel (one reason the convoy refused to deliver, the fuel WASN'T ANY GOOD!), without everyone having body armor, on and on I could go. Great cannon-fodder! I support the TROOPS, I want them fully and well-equipped, and I can do that without supporting the decision-makers who sit at their ranches while sending others into harm's way. And just wait until we start seeing the affects of all the depleted uranium we've dumped in shells over there. That's going to make Gulf War Syndrome look like the common cold.

How about we deal with one war at a time, especially since there was NO urgency to go after Saddam at the time we did? You are missing the seminal point: Do a job once, do it right, THEN move on. As for Kerry and the supposed "cuts" in funding he voted for, read more carefully. His issue was how we were going to PAY for these increases, THAT was his issue. BTW, Dick Cheney did PLENTY of voting for such cuts, too, look up HIS record sometime and then tell me why that's different.

KJ

 

[Str0ud]

I can do that without supporting the decision-makers who sit at their ranches while sending others into harm's way.

But Karen, it's not just a ranch, it's The Western White House.

 

[RBBailey]

Nothing wrong with cutting military spending - as long as it is done right. The 30% arbitrary cuts that were simply made, then handed to the Pentagon under Clinton are not the right way to go.

Karen, I actually think you are right about the possibility of not going to Iraq when we did, I think we should have "figured it out" for another few months. No disrespect for the way the military performed - they did better than any invasion in history - it's what happens next that they sort of, screwed up on. They went in with ideas, good ideas, but not plans for the occupation and "exit" It's like they are playing catchup with themselves now. Based on how the Pentagon prosecuted this war they probably had some pretty good plans coming down the pipe for the occupation, but it all went too fast. In fact, if I remember right, the first bombs fell in Baghdad because they thought they had a shot at Saddam, but the actual timeline for beginning the invasion was some hours, days, weeks off!

And the thing about the Generals asking for more troops - some did, some didn't. A disagreement that needed a solution, and Rumsfeld made his decision. Not arbitrarily though, he made his decision based on a long standing thesis of his that we need to cut military down to specialized units. No question we would win in Iraq, so lets test the theory now. Really, it worked, but not once the occupation began because really, an occupation is undefinable - is it a policing/political operation? Or is it still some sort of military operation? Nobody really knows how to do an occupation - especially in the Middle East.

 

[KEJ]

Ben, you're scaring me. We actually AGREE on something???

Str0ud, that is hilarious! Thanks for lightening my mood, if not others'.

KJ

 

[Eric N.]

Wow, now I can honestly say that I think I know exactly how Powell felt when he was talking to the UN.

 

[RBBailey]

I can probably tell you exactly how he felt - like trying to show something important to a bunch of high school students who just graduated from an elite boarding school and they think they can tell the world what to do; but the thing is they never get over it, they just keep living their lives in that immature, sophomoric, moment-in-time until they end up getting appointed to the U.N. where they spend the rest of their lives getting rich off the Oil For Food program of their choice and trying to dictate their wanted to be in the Politboro but had to settle for the next best thing communist viewpoints on the rest of the actually free world.


I'm not backing off of my view that we should have taken care of Iraq - it just seemed like the timeline should have been out a month or two. Hard to say, it's one of those argue till you're blue things.

And at least when Bush sits at his ranch and makes decisions, we won't have to track him down - Kerry could be at any number of 8 or 9 lodges in any number of Euro-trash countries.

 

[MarkP]

I'm not backing off of my view that we should have taken care of Iraq - it just seemed like the timeline should have been out a month or two. Hard to say, it's one of those argue till you're blue things.

Actually we waited too long trying to please the appeasers like Kerry and the UN. Breaking tonight - Russians moved the explosives to Syria immediately prior to the invasion. The stalling of France, Germany and the UN gave them time. What else did they move? WMD? Probably. Why? To embarrass the US and to hide the money trail.