:applause: :applause: :applause: x3.GregH said:
It's just a beautiful classic design you can't help but love everytime you see one
It's just a beautiful classic design you can't help but love everytime you see one
Hmmm, my car choices, BMW 507, Ferrari 246 or AC Ace with a Ruddspeed six cylinder.
Last edited:
Oh, and I have a 94 D1 and a 95 SWB. The SWB is the work truck that can do almost anything I've needed to and can also haul the trail Disco (if we don't drive it to the trail.)
Hey p m, the actual design of the RRC began in 1960 and as you state was available in 1970. Had it not been for the people at Land Rover the luxury SUV market would not have been created for quite some time.
1
1speed
Guest
First, it didn't begin in 1960, and second, do you think a Wagoneer appeared overnight?Landrovernick said:
Fact is, the Wag was in the dealerships 8 years before the RRC. By the time Range Rover appeared (very basic, with a 215 Buick V8 and stick shift), Wagoneers had three engines, every one of them torquier and more powerful than a 215, with the top engine a 350 Buick V8, a three-speed automatic as an option, A/C, power windows/tailgate window/seats/whatnot.
Talk about trend-setting in luxury SUV market.
In 1979, a Wagoneer with a QT setup beat an RRC in every single category - on-road, off-road, you name it. Sadly for the Jeep, in 1989 when the same folks repeated the same tests, the only category a (then Grand) Wagoneer won was the skidpad.
1speed - The 1963 model year Wagoneers were made in 1962, and the last GW was made in 1992 (arguably more than one - http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/fsjprod.html).
Last edited:
This is kind of like the "who invented the sport sedan" argument. BMW claims it, but Alfa Romeo was years ahead of them and they built technically and mechanically better cars for years. In 1968, the BMW 2002 had a SOHC iron block engine with a 1bbl downdraft, drum rear brakes, a 4 speed and no anti-roll bars -- the Alfa Giulietta had a DOHC alu engine with dual sidedrafts, 4 wheel discs, anti-roll bars and a 5 speed. In 1977 the Alfa Alfetta had fuel injected aluminum 4 cam V6 with a 5 speed rear mounted transaxle (think Porsche 944), inboard rear disc brakes and 50/50 weight distribution. BMW? Well, the 320i had an SOHC iron block inline 4 with fuel injection, drum rear brakes, a 4 speed, and a reputation for being tail-happy when pushed.
LR was not first to the party, but they have arguably built the best luxury 4x4 when measured in off-road prowess, and have pushed the technology envelope as well. As the recent Hyundai commercials point out, LR has not been the best at on road performance, nor economy or reliability. Most Land Cruiser owners would concur.
I still prefer my RRC. You pays your money and takes your chances, eh?
LR was not first to the party, but they have arguably built the best luxury 4x4 when measured in off-road prowess, and have pushed the technology envelope as well. As the recent Hyundai commercials point out, LR has not been the best at on road performance, nor economy or reliability. Most Land Cruiser owners would concur.
I still prefer my RRC. You pays your money and takes your chances, eh?
The Alfa Engines, while maybe "ahead of the curve" with DOHC, alum., sidedrafts, etc., the engine architecture itself did not prove as "hardy" and "tunable" as BMW's M10. The Nue Class BMW was just the beginning of what would prove to be the model for sedan design They proved to be VERY reiable and tough! While I loooove the Alfa GT's, they aren't as "tough" as the the venerable E10! This could be splitting hairs but I dare say the Alfa was a true "sportscar" while the E10 was the first "sporting sedan" - easy to drive, reliable, holds 4 people, (and luggage), in relative comfort, and with the tall roof line/greenhouse, it wasn't nearly aas cramped.
emmodg said:
Well, since we've veered SO far off topic...
You 2002 guys are so easy to spool up...
Having owned and rebuilt both M10's and Alfa 4's, I have to agree that the M10 is a more reliable engine (as are the 6 cyl M30's) -- because it's simpler and overbuilt -- aka heavy. Alfa engines need more PM, but you get a lot of joy for the effort... Of course, if we can get you in a 6 cyl BMW you'll swear off those buzzy M10's for life. Torque is addicting!
As to the Nue Klasse being such a breakthrough -- here's a 105 series Giula Berlina (sedan) and a NK. Yep, the 105 is an older design... with a 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, twin webers.
Attachments
Last edited:
I thought we were talking classic design rather than beauty. There's a crapload of beautiful Jags, Ferrari's, Aston Martins, Iso's, etc. out there.
IMHO-It was the Frua-designed Glas cars that brought beauty to BMW and thus the later 3.0 CSL referred to (er, not counting Albrecht von Goertz' 507).
Alfa's have (almost) always been beautiful cars. LOL-I never forget what the president of the Alfa Romeo club told me years ago (which kind of tells what philosophy Alfa owners should have)-"Paying someone to work on your car is like paying someone to make love to your wife!"
IMHO-It was the Frua-designed Glas cars that brought beauty to BMW and thus the later 3.0 CSL referred to (er, not counting Albrecht von Goertz' 507).
Alfa's have (almost) always been beautiful cars. LOL-I never forget what the president of the Alfa Romeo club told me years ago (which kind of tells what philosophy Alfa owners should have)-"Paying someone to work on your car is like paying someone to make love to your wife!"
That is a brilliant statement, so true. I guess I need to start working on my own car.GregH said:
I haven't read the entire thread but IMO the RRC is the best looking and most capable truck that Land Rover ever produced. Especially with the LT230. With the air dam and a slight suspension lift and off road tires it has a very purposeful stance that I just love. If I ever get another Rover it will be a Classic. I regret selling my 1988 RRC
L
LandCruisers4Life
Guest
Not a RRC owner yet, but will soon be. I just bought a RR P38 and have a DII as well as a couple of Land Cruisers. I love all of them, but have always wanted a RRC because they are cool looking, and are at the same time just a great ride. A friend of mine used to own a 93 and it was just fun to ride around in and was very comfortable.
Velocewest said:
Having owned (from new) both an early (1971) BMW 2002 and an Alfa Romeo Alfetta (1976) I can say they were both beautiful handling cars - and both made you feel rather special. The Alfetta was in fact a bit livlier, handled better, and was roomier as a family sedan - we had three small children by then.
Back to the topic, those who say that the Range Rover somehow influenced the North American car makers early to introduce upgraded SUV's must be smoking something. Remember that the Range Rover was virtually unknown on these shores prior to 1988 - and if North American producers really paid attention to what was going on in the rest of the world, they wouldn't be in the shape they are today!
Range Rover did set the luxury off-road standard in Europe and the Middle East, and set high standards for Toyota, Mitsubishi and Nissan.
When I first encountered Range Rovers it was in Lebanon in 1980, as they were always used by Yasser Arafat and the senior members of the PLO. The rest drove Toyota pick-ups.
______________________
2003 RR HSE
ex 2000 Disco II
p m said:
I'm not sure what a "QT setup" is, but there is no way in hell a 1979 Wagoneer Limited would beat out a 1979 RRC in all categories.
I won't for a minute question that the Wagoneer and the Bronco were the predecessors, but the RRC is a FAR superior vehicle from a design and real world stand point.
Here is why there is no comparison in 1970, 1979, 1989 or 2007:
-LONG TRAVEL SOLID BEAM COIL SPRUNG SUSPENSION!!!
(that alone crushes the Conestoga Wagoneer)
-Four wheel disc brakes
-Full time 4wd
-Aluminum body
-Aluminum motor
-limited slip rear (1st year)
-Every luxury feature the Wagoneer was offered with and then some
But above all the real litmus test is the past 35+ years.
The RRC is one of the most dominant widely used and continually capable vehicles on the planet while the Wagoneer is a fucking relic. The list of places that RRCs have been where no Wagoneer has ever seen the light of day is long and distinguished.
Nigga Please.