Why you shouldn't buy a D2

[garrett]

The problem is you can't neglect/abuse a Land Rover whereas you can a Toyota, Honda, etc. I've had both for long enough to know there is an obvious difference in quality of the vehicles.

I meet a LOT of people in my job that own both LR and Toyota products and I always ask them about their opinions. The difference is a large percentage of LR people talk about what pieces of shit their trucks have been......Toyota folks, not so much. I guess Toyota owners use the proper anti-freeze, replace their hubs frequently and clean our their sunroof drains. That just doesn't explain the huge percentage of owners with consistent reliability issues with their LR product. It seems to have gotten much better with the more modern trucks that we see at the dealer events. A larger percentage of owners with later model trucks appear to be more complimentary, but still weary. We don't see many DIs and DIIs anymore. They've all traded them in or at cash for clunkers.

 

[K-rover]

My answer to your question is, needing reverse to negotiate turns in the woods, that makes it LIMITED, I have video that says otherwise

overall height makes it LIMITED. D1's are almost an inch taller than D2's

Nice wanna be trucks, but LIMITED. Limited by the driver perhaps

.

 

[K-rover]

I know my DII performs every bit as well as my stock DI did.

Yes , simalar, but I never once had to get under my D1 to engage the diff lock ( no need to explain why).:rofl:

Not making fun of D2s, I built a real nice one, but I also built a nice D1, and if I had it to do over, I would choose a D1.
As for the coolant issue, I tend to think that what you say makes good sense, but considering that most D2's were expensive when new, and driven by people who could afford proper service, there is way too large of a number of them that need head gaskets, to blame this on coolant.[/quote]



So, just because the truck was expensive when new, the people that bought it should now how to properly service the truck? Have you ever seen a 80k-90k Mercedes that hasnt had a single car wash with their dog hanging out the back.. I have.. Money doesnt equal common sense.. In fact it usually means the opposite

 

[brushogger]

My 04 D2 was great, except for the engine. When I purchased it the maintenance records were good, and I maintained it like it was one of my children. That didn't stop the liners from starting to slip. No, it hadn't been overheated. I watched the scan gauge like a hawk. Land Rover just got sloppy with the tooling for their blocks as the D2's came to an end. They put out a TSB on the 03 D2 oil pump issue, but never backed the product. Now that the liners on the 04's are dropping like flies, they are also refusing to back them up. Hell, when Toyota had rust issues on their truck frames, they were giving owners the option of a frame replacement or an unbelieveable trade in on a new one. These D2's are low mileage trucks that are failing(mine had 71k). I loved that truck, and if someone ever engineers a good swap for a 4.3 Vortec v6 and makes all the whistles blow and bells ring, I will own another. Until then, I'll stay away.

 

[brian4d]

The problem is you can't neglect/abuse a Land Rover whereas you can a Toyota, Honda, etc. I've had both for long enough to know there is an obvious difference in quality of the vehicles.

I meet a LOT of people in my job that own both LR and Toyota products and I always ask them about their opinions. The difference is a large percentage of LR people talk about what pieces of shit their trucks have been......Toyota folks, not so much. I guess Toyota owners use the proper anti-freeze, replace their hubs frequently and clean our their sunroof drains. That just doesn't explain the huge percentage of owners with consistent reliability issues with their LR product. It seems to have gotten much better with the more modern trucks that we see at the dealer events. A larger percentage of owners with later model trucks appear to be more complimentary, but still weary. We don't see many DIs and DIIs anymore. They've all traded them in or at cash for clunkers.

Not so fast with the Yota's. Don't get me wrong they are good but can still have their share of problems. Comparable to the Disco head gasket leaks the 3rd generation 4runner trans cooler (internal) has been known to fail and mix oil and coolant. When this happens you can replace the radiator flush both systems and cross your fingers. More often than not you'll need to replace your transmission as well from what I understand. I opted to add an external cooler and bypass the internal cooler to avoid the problem. When/if it hits your spewing pepto colored mix all over. Quite possibly worse than a disco HG leak.

 

[stu454]

I thought that Toyotas were infallible?

 

[garrett]

Not so fast with the Yota's. Don't get me wrong they are good but can still have their share of problems. Comparable to the Disco head gasket leaks the 3rd generation 4runner trans cooler (internal) has been known to fail and mix oil and coolant. When this happens you can replace the radiator flush both systems and cross your fingers. More often than not you'll need to replace your transmission as well from what I understand. I opted to add an external cooler and bypass the internal cooler to avoid the problem. When/if it hits your spewing pepto colored mix all over. Quite possibly worse than a disco HG leak.

Sure you can always pick apart any vehicle out there with "X" problem. They all have them, but Toyota are no where near the consistent problems that Land Rover has. It's not even close.

We have a fleet of over 20 trucks now and certainly some of the Toyota's have their issues. But as the fleet is culled the Land Rovers are being pushed aside. We'll always have a few Defenders around, but they are no longer relative as much as they once were. Most in part because of their reliability. Ask anyone in the military long enough to have more than a few tours with them consistantly - SEALs, Rangers, 10th group, etc.

I use the one Taco for example all the time that I use for a DD. 93K miles and LOTS of hard training frequently. Not to mention the 100 mile commute each day before and after training. In that many miles it's had two bearings and a wheel cylinder fail. We have a '97 FZJ80 with 150K and has been a training truck since '99 and rolled HARD. It's one of the most reliable trucks we have. I can go on and on.

That isn't to say I don't love the Land Rovers. I do. I am willing to give up a little uniqueness in order to have my truck start 100% every morning though. I can get my fill with the 110 at the course from time to time.

HG issues assured, slipped liners most certain, faulty oil pumps and overall poor electronics combined with a company that has done VERY little to back up their known problems is a poor combination. Lets hope their attitude changes under the new leadership.

 

[brian4d]

Sure you can always pick apart any vehicle out there with "X" problem. They all have them, but Toyota are no where near the consistent problems that Land Rover has. It's not even close.

We have a fleet of over 20 trucks now and certainly some of the Toyota's have their issues. But as the fleet is culled the Land Rovers are being pushed aside. We'll always have a few Defenders around, but they are no longer relative as much as they once were. Most in part because of their reliability. Ask anyone in the military long enough to have more than a few tours with them consistantly - SEALs, Rangers, 10th group, etc.

I use the one Taco for example all the time that I use for a DD. 93K miles and LOTS of hard training frequently. Not to mention the 100 mile commute each day before and after training. In that many miles it's had two bearings and a wheel cylinder fail. We have a '97 FZJ80 with 150K and has been a training truck since '99 and rolled HARD. It's one of the most reliable trucks we have. I can go on and on.

That isn't to say I don't love the Land Rovers. I do. I am willing to give up a little uniqueness in order to have my truck start 100% every morning though. I can get my fill with the 110 at the course from time to time.

HG issues assured, slipped liners most certain, faulty oil pumps and overall poor electronics combined with a company that has done VERY little to back up their known problems is a poor combination. Lets hope their attitude changes under the new leadership.

Well put. My sister drives a 96 fj80 with 280K. We were driving the other day and the engine stumbled while the CEL came on. I ask if she had ever changed her plugs and she replied "no".

 

[Some Dude]

When/if it hits your spewing pepto colored mix all over. Quite possibly worse than a disco HG leak.

Mmmm strawberry milkshake.

 

[Disco Dog]

.

:yakyak:

 

[brian4d]

Mmmm strawberry milkshake.

That's it. What a damn mess that would be.

 

[group captain mandrake]

Judging from your sig, it appears as though you have copied my scheme for ensuring that there is always a Rover around that runs.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Its even crazier than that; The '99 is going to become a donor truck with the body panels going to the '04, and engine, transfer case, and off-road bits going to the '03. The '02 and '98 are daily drivers and stock. I have a wonderful wife, but she thinks I should sell the '98, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

 

[road1will]

As others have said, most of that could have been avoided with regular maintenance. It doesn't matter that you did 6k worth the maintenance in the last year to "catch up". There is no catching up on missed maintenance if it caused unseen damage.

While your Oddyssey was great, it will one day need a transmission. 140k is a lot out of one. ANY acura or honda product with a V6 will need a transmission one day. They are junk and just do not last. Did you do your timing belt service on your honda? Any v6 honda and most 4cyl honda's require timing belt replacement at 105,000 miles plus the 105,000 service to the tune of $1,500. Last time I checked, there is no regular maintenance on a land rover that costs 1500 in a single visit.

 

[ptschram]

As others have said, most of that could have been avoided with regular maintenance. It doesn't matter that you did 6k worth the maintenance in the last year to "catch up". There is no catching up on missed maintenance if it caused unseen damage.

While your Oddyssey was great, it will one day need a transmission. 140k is a lot out of one. ANY acura or honda product with a V6 will need a transmission one day. They are junk and just do not last. Did you do your timing belt service on your honda? Any v6 honda and most 4cyl honda's require timing belt replacement at 105,000 miles plus the 105,000 service to the tune of $1,500. Last time I checked, there is no regular maintenance on a land rover that costs 1500 in a single visit.

Freelander 60K mile service runs about $6K at a dealer, timing belts, etc.

As for the Acuras, my wife's Vigor made it about 210K before the trans gave up. Let's not forget that the Freelander had the Japanese transmission as well.

 

[road1will]

Freelander 60K mile service runs about $6K at a dealer, timing belts, etc.

As for the Acuras, my wife's Vigor made it about 210K before the trans gave up. Let's not forget that the Freelander had the Japanese transmission as well.

Damn, didn't realize the Freelander had a T belt. Early honda/acura didn't have trans issues. It starts with the 2000 TL and the MDX.

 

[honda50r]

That isn't to say I don't love the Land Rovers. I do. I am willing to give up a little uniqueness in order to have my truck start 100% every morning though.

Well put. Ditto

 

[jackp]

I bought mine in 08/2001. Never stranded me, towed trailers, off-roaded, beat to crap - maintained decently but not OCD-like. TJM bumper, winch tray and Superwinch are the only upgrades. Gave it to my 17y/o daughter to drive...6 months later she has a wreck, hits 3 cars, totals a new Impala in front of her. We drive it home, order parts from Will, beat out the dents. My insurance is crazy high now, but my daughter is alive and unhurt. One reason to maybe buy a D2.

 

[wheelen disco]

I bought mine in 08/2001. Never stranded me, towed trailers, off-roaded, beat to crap - maintained decently but not OCD-like. TJM bumper, winch tray and Superwinch are the only upgrades. Gave it to my 17y/o daughter to drive...6 months later she has a wreck, hits 3 cars, totals a new Impala in front of her. We drive it home, order parts from Will, beat out the dents. My insurance is crazy high now, but my daughter is alive and unhurt. One reason to maybe buy a D2.

Good to hear about your daughter, there's no replacement for mass in an accident.

On the mass subject, the girlfriend was driving my truck and I was riding bitch (had a few beers) as she pulled into a local convenience store and hit one of those concrete filled steel pols. It bent the pole back quite alot chipped the paint on my bumper, tripped the inertia switch and gave her a nice seat belt bruise. ,
Moral of the story, every women should drive vehicles with steel bumpers.

 

[jackp]

I bought mine in 08/2001. Never stranded me, towed trailers, off-roaded, beat to crap - maintained decently but not OCD-like. TJM bumper, winch tray and Superwinch are the only upgrades. Gave it to my 17y/o daughter to drive...6 months later she has a wreck, hits 3 cars, totals a new Impala in front of her. We drive it home, order parts from Will, beat out the dents. My insurance is crazy high now, but my daughter is alive and unhurt. One reason to maybe buy a D2.

and now...for the REST of the story:

I have, over the last 103,000 miles fixed/replaced/dealt with: Warranty - headgaskets, radiator, upper engine wiring harness, cat converter, front drive shaft, steering column. Non warranty - a couple door lock actuators, window regulator (homemade fix times 2), sagging headliner, air springs (yes, i still have sls), throttle body heater gasket, 3 amigos visit from time to time but never stay around. Currently dealing with a rear hub flinging out grease, and an odd 'grinding' noise from front left area when accelerating (hub..cv joint...loose shock mount..don't know). All-in-all its a pretty simple truck to repair (some stupid things, like plug wire to coil pack access suck), and with Will T having parts one day away (or 1 hour drive), considering it's always made it home and I treat it like a 'truck', I think D2's are decent 4x4's.

 

[discostew]

DII 's are the way they are because BMW got involved. I believe BMW purchased Land Rover as a technology grab and knew full well they were going to sell the company after injecting real quality issues. They did this to downgrade the Land Rover line and distance BMW products from the competition.How else could they have done so many fucked up things. The Disco I was the last of the real Land Rover Heritage available to us in the states.