XD Engine Upgrade
- Thread starter Tin Medic
- Start date
Just flip your manifolds side to side and upside down and run zoomies right outta the hood!
Yeah, I don't know if it's really overkill when I consider the cost of doing a proper LS or Hemi conversion, with all the adapters and computer work..and welding..etc. I agree that an LS can do all this easy-peazy but I expect an engine and tranny and an adapter ..or an engine and adapter and all the fiddlybits necessary to make an LS work, plus the cost of a rebuilt LS ...all of a sudden, a stroker rover doesn't look all that overkill imo. Especially when you consider just how well these engines run and make torque on the bottom half of the tach.
What I need to fully get my head around is the combination of parts.. and how to make them all fit together in various combos. For example, the 4.0/4.6 "short snout" vs. 3.5/3.9/4.2 long snout... vs. buick 300, 340. 350 cranks.. Oil pump configuration, internal balance, external balance, crank hub dimensions, crank snout configuration, etc...
I still have some digging to do. Again, I agree that it may not be practical but in considering an LS (or Hemi) swap, I'd like to poke around down in the rabbit hole before I give up on the little engine that could.
The buick 350 is all iron. :-/ The 1967 300 (I think it was the 67) had aluminum heads but later ones were also all iron. Apparently the 67 300 heads and the 300 crank are the way to go, from what I've read so far.Those TVR guys seem to rev the shite out of these things. There must be some flow in those heads somewhere.. enough for 7000rpm. Not that I am interested in that. Making HP with spin is... easy. I say easy, I guess I mean it's not rocket science... make it breath and "RUD-resistant" and it will make power when you spin it faster. Making power off idle and up to The Constant is where magic is made, imo. Cubic inches make it easy, bolt-on air compressors make it easy (again, so long as the engine is made RUD resistant). But making effective power down low from a relatively small engine using only the column of air above it? That is where real talent makes itself apparent. And that is why I like Wankel engines. ;-D
Tranny side note:
The 4hp22 was the same tranny that sat behind the 1987-91 BMW 750i/iL. It made ~300hp and about ~340 lbft torque. That V12 was just magical. It sounded wonderful and made really meaningful power. When I was at Dinan we developed and installed several twin turbo 750iL cars with that m70 engine. With the stock tranny (reprogrammed tranny computer and new clutches) the twin-turbo made 400hp and 500lbft. I had an 87 with the stage III treatment (stock engine with extrude-honed intake and plenums, air boxes, full exhaust, all the computers (FOUR of them, three for the engine and one for the tranny), and crazy good suspension mods... It pulled ~385hp and just over 400lbft on his wheel dyno. The tranny was certainly the weakest link but it still held up for ~5 years of hard driving before it shitthebed.
BMW 4HP22 was never the same as on Land Rovers.
I've already come across two dead mechanical 4HP22s, and I see another one not too far behind.
if you want to do some more research there is a buick 300 crankshaft in my shed that needs a new home
also a 4hp22/24 hybrid Im likely to never use since I went r380
discoweb.org
also a 4hp22/24 hybrid Im likely to never use since I went r380
ZF 22 vs 24
I'm putting together a better ZF to match the 4.6 Here are some of the differences I've found in the process of putting it together. I started with a run of the mill 4.0 D1 1043-010-747 I'm putting as many 4HP24 parts in there out of a 1043-030-069 from a 2004 D2 E and F clutch same clutch...
discoweb.org
PM meif you want to do some more research there is a buick 300 crankshaft in my shed that needs a new home
also a 4hp22/24 hybrid Im likely to never use since I went r380
ZF 22 vs 24
I'm putting together a better ZF to match the 4.6 Here are some of the differences I've found in the process of putting it together. I started with a run of the mill 4.0 D1 1043-010-747 I'm putting as many 4HP24 parts in there out of a 1043-030-069 from a 2004 D2 E and F clutch same clutch...
Annabelles engine is a sleeved 4.6 in a D1, Ported and polished custom machined heads, ported intake with shortened trumpets, 24lb injectors, harland sharpe roller rockers... all the goodies. i would say its in the 20-30,000$ build. There is no roller cam billet and after having all kinds of different problems with Crower cams and lifters, i have given up and decided whatever it takes to go full roller on a gems short nose engine i am going to do. im flat done with parts that dont break in.
Wife just asked if the Coscast block is going to be built for her disco. I just did the R380 swap yesterday for her. She keeps asking for lockers, gears and more power. I am now obligated to build her dream disco.
One of the Wild cams i tried had a 3000-7500rpm range. It was insane over 3000rpm and carried power right out the back door over 6000rpms. Under 3000rpms though you were not going anywhere.
So food for thought. its been done once but never replicated. There was a company that placed the old 4 cylinder lotus heads on a RV8 and ran 4 valve and twin cam heads. the problem with the RV8 is the head design. figure that out and you have an engine that will scream with power.
I went through all these same thoughts with my XD. In the end I found a 300Tdi drive train and swapped it in. Removed all the GEMS management, ABS and now have a truck that I enjoy and hasn’t let me down. Its great off road just chugging along. It’s no race car, it’s not meant to be. It’ll go 80 on the highway and that’s all I need. I tow a little camping trailer (not very fast). But it’s fun to drive around town and watch the boost come in. As a bonus I get about 450 miles out of a tank. I live in a state that doesn’t test emissions on cars over 20 years old and it is titled as a diesel with a manual transmission.
If you are considering moving to the UK then parts availability for a River engine may be easier than an LS swap. Also the MOT inspection requirements are not as lax as US safety inspections and they may frown on such a swap.
If you are considering moving to the UK then parts availability for a River engine may be easier than an LS swap. Also the MOT inspection requirements are not as lax as US safety inspections and they may frown on such a swap.
Top of mind questions:
- How much was the sleeve job, who's did you use, and did you go stock bore or over (and by how much)?
- Harland Sharpe, now that's a name I've not heard since my drag racing days. Why their parts? Beyond quality, do they make direct fit rollers (and are they also doing hydraulic roller lifters or just rockers)?
- Questions related to high rpm endeavors:
- How did you determine where/how much to machine?
- Bigger valves? Custom cut or buick/chevy/etc off the shelf?
- short horns? what does this do to the powerband (besides the obvious northern RPM shift)
Wow, my Wife has a completely different take on it. Can you send me your brainwashing manual? Mine is CLEARLY inferior! :-D
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I had the HT2.8VNT with the 4HP22 behind it. With 4.11's and a bunch of other GoSlow but GoHard items.. That engine was amazing. Who'da thought a disco with a rack, lights, mud tires, lift, lockers, and 4.11's could get 25mpg at 55mph and go a solid 500 miles on a tank of peanut oil straight from Costco? Just frigging amazing. But.. it really liked 40-50mph.. it would go 65, even 75 but it really didn't like it (and mileage dropped to ~17-18mpg while doing so). The 3.9 is a pig in comparison but it floats down the highway at 65-75 with no fuss (especially with the 235/85/16's on it)... but it drinks 14-16mpg while doing it.
Different strokes.
Probably - but the engine bay of a Wagoneer is about the same as a Classic's. The cats may have to be relocated further down (if that's a consideration at all).
Edit - check this, a 350 is actually narrower than a 215 (but slightly larger in other dimensions).
Same basic block.. but iron.. And the biggy is that it has a taller deck to accommodate the 3.85 inch stroke...and a 100thou wider bore (3.8" rather than 3.7". Funny, the 3.8L v6 has a 3.8" bore
The heads are iron as well.
That’s interesting. Most of my experience with that stuff is Olds engines. I’m probably the thinking of those. It’s more along the lines of Buick big blocks. Like the 430 Buick.
bellhousing pattern is very different between iron buick blocks and rover/ buick 215.
no air gap between the manifold and lifter valley
It might be narrower with the stamped buick valve covers vs cast rover covers, but once you slap manifolds on there I can't see the 215 being wider.
no air gap between the manifold and lifter valley
It might be narrower with the stamped buick valve covers vs cast rover covers, but once you slap manifolds on there I can't see the 215 being wider.