weld on vs. bolt on diff gaurds

[Kyle]

D , yes , its a no brainer... THe MD axles are made of better material and a better design. The RT axles aremade of an inferior material with anot so good design... Thats not John just saying so , thats how it is... By nature they will not take the same abuse and the same amount of cycles..

 

[john]

No, the GBR axles are not stronger because I say they are. You're just being a dick there because you have nothing else to come back with on your own.

I've already said why the GBR axles are stronger than the RT shafts. The RT shafts are thick for their entire length and then step down where they plug into the shafts. Because of the vast difference in strength between the thick and thin sections, the thin section takes all of the wear and tear. The RT shafts do not flex the way the single-thickness design of the GBR shafts lets them twist and flex under load and distribute shock forces and loads throughout the entire shaft instead of on one small section. I've said this before and illustrated why and how it works. You ignore it on purpose because: (1) you can't accept that a thinner design is stronger; (2) because your brain can't understand it; and/or (3) you bought the cheaper shafts because you're a cheap fuck and you must therefore believe that you made the correct choice and no force in the universe will convince you otherwise.

That is is all else is equal between the GBR and RT shafts is equal. But Kyle and I have stated why it is not all else equal and that the GBR shafts have other advantages over the RT shafts. The RT shafts are made from standard Moser blanks that have already been case hardened. When RT orders the shafts from Moser, Moser cuts the blanks to length, decreases their diameter so that they will plug into the Rover diffs, and then cuts splines into them. The material that is left after the diameter reduction and spline cutting is not the hard part of the shaft. It is soft steel. It is not reheat-treated or case hardened.

So far you have come up with nothing other than the RT shafts are "beefier". I've already stated why "beefier" is not necessarily better and that it is often worse.

Just admit that you have an ax to grind with Bill Davis the same way you have an ax to grind with me. Stop trying to bullshit your way through this stuff. And then go back and crawl into your hole and disappear.

 

[Bruno]

My rear Mantec diff guard really put up a good fight, I needed to enlarge the fill hole (as Jonh Lee stated earlier) yet have it look perfect, a few hours later and countless hits with the Ironworker and 'Voila', just the way Mantec should have shipped it... LOL

Bruno.

 

[D Chapman]

Now I'm a cheap fuck. If you read in the axle tread, you will see I called Bill TWO times for axles. He returned my call something like a weak later. I needed/wanted axles before I headed to Rausch Creek. I don't have a "beef" with Bill, just my experience with his service sucked. Sucked like my experience with your shop. Thats not saying you, Ho, or your shop sucks, it's just my experience with your place. Thats why I have not done any "worth wild" business with you, or Bill.

As far as the axles go, time will tell if the RT stuff will hold up. I can't tell you which is better, thats why I asked in the other thread. I still don't buy what you are saying though. All you say is "theory". In theory, Superior axle and gear makes a better axle than Warn for Jeeps, but the guys seem to break the Superior stuff and the Warn stuff holds up. I can't argue with you on something I don't know a lot about.... But, I don't care how you look at it, your "stealth" look is pretty silly.

 

[Kyle]

Dan , you are saying you dont know and you cant say. But you are arguing anyway ?
Cmon man , you know that dont make sense

 

[D Chapman]

Man Kyle, I deal with salesmen every week as to why their product kicks the others ass. Theory don't mean crap a lot of times. I just want to see some real data as to why one is better than the other. I don't know what type of machine it takes to do it, but I know there is something.

 

[Kyle]

YOu are getting real data , you just dont want to see it. I agree in that alot of things are BS , but materials are constants

 

[Bruno]

I don't know what type of machine it takes to do it, but I know there is something.

Dan, this would require a significant amount of work, there are various factors involved which would all need to be addressed, it can be done - but is the juice worth the squeze?

BTW - Kyle, you remember a guy named Rick Dyer ? 7 sec 55 shoebox Chevy with a badass Eagle motor in it - Fastest streetcar shootout guy.

Bruno.

 

[D Chapman]

I guess what my biggest problem is, is when metal bends back and forth over and over again, what happens? Why is Hy-tuf so much different? I understand that it has "memory" and returns to it's original spec. I also understand that it has a percentage of some aero-space material in it. But thats only a percentage, the rest is still basic metal, right?

It's like my rear steering link. I first used 1 1/4" 303 stainless. It bent....Then I used a piece of 1 1/4" D2 I had laying around. It bent.... Then, I used a piece of 1 1/2" 4140 that has been on the truck for almost a year. In fact, I was under there the other day and noticed a tie rod end warped. So, I guess thats the "weak link" now. in theory, the 303 should have more "memory" than the 4140. But the 4140 is bigger, "beefier", than the 303. Even though it necks down to 11/16" at the tie rod end, the 303, and D2 still bent first. On the flip side, why did the 11/16" tie rod end not bent first with the 303, or D2?

 

[john]

I first used 1 1/4" 303 stainless. It bent....Then I used a piece of 1 1/4" D2 I had laying around. It bent.... Then, I used a piece of 1 1/2" 4140 that has been on the truck for almost a year. In fact, I was under there the other day and noticed a tie rod end warped. So, I guess thats the "weak link" now. in theory, the 303 should have more "memory" than the 4140. But the 4140 is bigger, "beefier", than the 303. Even though it necks down to 11/16" at the tie rod end, the 303, and D2 still bent first. On the flip side, why did the 11/16" tie rod end not bent first with the 303, or D2?

The 303 and D2 bent "first"? How you do you know? Did you keep data on the number and force of the impacts each rod? Unfuckingbelievable.

And why did the thinner ends not bend before the thicker center sections of the rods? Did you ever think about where the bending forces were being applied on the tie rod?

This is fucking hilarious. It really shows how your brain works. Truly, all you understand is thickness. It doesn't go beyond that. It can't.

 

[Bruno]

I guess what my biggest problem is, is when metal bends back and forth over and over again, what happens? Why is Hy-tuf so much different? I understand that it has "memory" and returns to it's original spec. I also understand that it has a percentage of some aero-space material in it. But thats only a percentage, the rest is still basic metal, right?

It's like my rear steering link. I first used 1 1/4" 303 stainless. It bent....Then I used a piece of 1 1/4" D2 I had laying around. It bent.... Then, I used a piece of 1 1/2" 4140 that has been on the truck for almost a year. In fact, I was under there the other day and noticed a tie rod end warped. So, I guess thats the "weak link" now. in theory, the 303 should have more "memory" than the 4140. But the 4140 is bigger, "beefier", than the 303. Even though it necks down to 11/16" at the tie rod end, the 303, and D2 still bent first. On the flip side, why did the 11/16" tie rod end not bent first with the 303, or D2?

Dan, you just answered your own question man, Molybdenum, in 4140 - 0.15/0.25
in Turballoy Ht (Hy-Tuf) - 0.35/0.45

Still doesn't answer the whole issue though.

Bruno.

 

[D Chapman]

The 303 and D2 bent "first"? How you do you know? Did you keep data on the number and force of the impacts each rod? Unfuckingbelievable.

Did you ever think about where the bending forces were being applied on the tie rod?

This is fucking hilarious. It really shows how your brain works. Truly, all you understand is thickness. It doesn't go beyond that. It can't.

What are you talking about John? Did the rod bent first? Well the tie rod end's wernt bent before. So, yea, I guess the rod bent first.....

"And why did the thinner ends not bend before the thicker center sections of the rods?"
That is the question I asked......In "theory" the thinner part should have bent first, you know, like a chain breaking....

" Did you ever think about where the bending forces were being applied on the tie rod?"
Yea, the weight of the truck sitting on the rod, pinned on a rock, and moving forward and/or backwards.

Like in your "theory", the 303 has more "memory", but the 4140 material holds up better. The 4140 has gouges, scrapes, and marks all over it, so I know it's getting hit. Plus the tie rod ends are bent slightly, that never happened before. So, I guess size does matter.

 

[Kyle]

So if you could drive the truck by a 5" wooden dowel it would be better? YOU need some sleep D , you are straying too far from the path...lol

 

[john]

That is the question I asked......In "theory" the thinner part should have bent first, you know, like a chain breaking....

Oh my God. You're fucking serious here, aren't you.

 

[Kyle]

I am gonna turn me up some giant oak axles and sell em like mad,,,,,,

 

[Bruno]

Dan, did you not understand what I was illustrating? it has nothing to do with physical size, and everything to do with chemical composition... you know, elastic modulus, tensile, etc.

Bruno.

 

[john]

I think we've all been too hard to poor Dan. Up to now, I had no idea what we were dealing with. Now I know.

 

[D Chapman]

No Kyle, I read everthing and it makes since... But maybe my good friend Captain Morgan has something to do with it.

Anyway, both you and John John would get along great with one of my best friends. He has tryed to convince me for the past year I'm a dumb shit for using that syn wood on my deck vs. regular wood. What do I mean by that????? It does not matter what you do, what you say, or how you explain it, someone is alway going to have a different opinion as to how it should have been done.

 

[john]

Ahh, one more use for duct tape.. Hey if it works and gets you home to fix it the right way then you won't hear a peep out of me about it.. How close was that one dented diff to the ring gear?

I think that Rangie with the huge dent still worked fine after the hit. I don't know if the inside of the diff pan actually bounced against the edge of the ring gear and then bounced back enough to clear, but the vehicle seemed to drive fine after that dent so I think the diff pan wasn't touching the ring gear.

 

[Eric N.]

John, dents like that scare the hell out of me..



Kyle, if you're going to make oak axles you might be better off getting some of those submerged swamp stumps and making axles out of those.. I just can't believe how strong those little stumps can be.. Freaking super swamp wood..