gun seizure?

rovercanus

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2004
9,651
246
If you have the means you can finish an 80% lower. But it isn't just slapping it together like you are implying JB. It takes machine work. A "100% lower" with that pesky serial number requires an FFL.
To answer your question, no, you can't just have a gun shipped to your house when you purchase it through the internet, which I have done btw, it has to go through an FFL.
I suspect you know this but want to argue.
Now I do get cigars shipped directly to my home. What if a baby got a hold of my cigars and smoked them? What if he took them to a school?
 

emmodg

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2006
4,273
1
Now everyone is playing semantics. The fact is. And it is a fact. A man can on his iPad and order an AR15 and have it delivered to his door. Can you take it out of the box and fire it? No. Can you take the lower to your basement or garage or yard and finish it with a router? Yep. And guess what then? You have a gun. It's has no serial number and YOU ordered it off the internet. As I said before - you COULD NOT do that over 30 years ago. So I would say yes. It is indeed easier to purchase a weapon.

This argument comes up every year. Every year the "they are coming for our _______!" argument rears its paranoid head. Doesn't matter who's in office - republican or democrat. If "they" wanted your guns, "they" would have taken them by now.

When I was a kid back in the '80s, we didn't use the term "black rifle", "AR", lower, upper. Now we have "AR", "Recoil", "Preper" and "Tactical Firearm" drumming up business and there's nothing wrong with that. I remember buying Guns & Ammo and Gray's. When I was a kid in the '80s all we wanted - when talking about guns - was a "big gun" to hunt with. And you bought one. And guess what? You can buy one now. "They" haven't stopped that.

So what is the problem? That you can't get ANYTHING you want over the internet.
 

emmodg

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2006
4,273
1
If you have the means you can finish an 80% lower. But it isn't just slapping it together like you are implying JB. It takes machine work. A "100% lower" with that pesky serial number requires an FFL.
To answer your question, no, you can't just have a gun shipped to your house when you purchase it through the internet, which I have done btw, it has to go through an FFL.
I suspect you know this but want to argue.
Now I do get cigars shipped directly to my home. What if a baby got a hold of my cigars and smoked them? What if he took them to a school?

Well, I'd rather have a baby take your cigar to school then a gun I guess. But look out - "They're" gonna take our cigars now!

If your feeling "scared" move to my street. We call it "gun alley". I've got a neighbor who's worked for the NRA since he left the service - he's 70 now and he has a crazy collection. I've got another neighbor who's crazy talented on a gun bench. And another neighbor who heads up security for North Anna, he's a combat marine vet and he holds an FFL and I can get shit delivered to his house. I've also got a gunsmith shop that's a 3 minute walk from my house. They all live within 75 yards of me. When we stand out in my street and solve the worlds problems "they" never come up. Life is good Walter. You'll get through this.
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,144
152
When cigars are outlawed, only outlaws will have cigars!
 

rovercanus

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2004
9,651
246
Ain't skeered. I can watch out for myself.
But you still can't get a gun delivered to your house.
Ordering a gun off of the internet is just like buying a gun in a store, you still have to go through the same checks by filling out the same paperwork. In Virginia I don't worry too much about serial numbers since there is no gun registration in this state except for full automatics.
So when disingenuous people start shouting "Buy guns on the internet!", they are actually misrepresenting true facts hoping to get a knee jerk "Ban 'em all!" reaction from people like Paul.
Once again, 80% lowers require machining that most people do not either have the skills for or access to. It is illegal to buy an 80% lower and have someone do the machining for you. It must be completed by the purchaser. Of course there are ways around this like all laws. If you are a criminal you would simply ignore this anyway.
That link you sent me sucks. I can get a complete lower receiver and make a rifle cheaper if cheaper was the way I wanted to go.
 

stu454

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2004
5,407
61
Atlanta, GA
All I know is when my wife and I went from our Anthem Blue Cross policy to Connecticare purchased through the ACA (no subsidies) not only did we retain all of our doctors but we saw a substantial drop in our premiums. It was the first time that ever happened in the 14 years we've been buying our own insurance. So, in the case of the ACA, we were very happy with the results.

Yeah, our premiums quadrupled while copays went up. So, we were not very happy with the results.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
Once again, 80% lowers require machining that most people do not either have the skills for or access to.

Total aside (since for the most part I agree with everything you are saying):

The Glock 80% lowers...those are wicked easy to make at home. Could easily do it with a dremel and a steady hand. I did it with the drill press & a cross vise b/c I had it, but that was mostly out of curiosity.

I dislike the poly AR lowers a great deal, and def concur that a billet 80% is likely beyond many.

All of which is really irrelevant since I think Brian's #'s are very low; there is way more than 300M firearms in the US. Yet crime is down to historic lows. Correlation vice causation and all that, but it still is what it is.
 

stu454

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2004
5,407
61
Atlanta, GA
....All of which is really irrelevant since I think Brian's #'s are very low; there is way more than 300M firearms in the US. Yet crime is down to historic lows. Correlation vice causation and all that, but it still is what it is.

That's the pickle for people that don't like guns: there are more people than ever and more guns than ever, yet crime is down overall.
 

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
61
Genesee, CO USA
The fact is. And it is a fact. A man can on his iPad and order an AR15 and have it delivered to his door.
1 very large error in your post.
A man would not have an iPad.

I can't (angrily or joyfully) wait at the mailbox.
The network cable to my 386 desktop isn't long enough.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,922
460
Darien Gap
More guns = more gun homicides, statistically speaking

In 2008, we explored the issue of whether more gun ownership meant more or less gun violence. What we found, and it still holds true, was that some studies had shown a statistical relationship between those factors ? areas with a higher prevalence of guns had higher prevalence of gun homicides and homicides in general. But studies haven?t been able to show a causal relationship ? that the mere presence of guns, as opposed to other factors, caused the higher rates of gun violence. It?s doubtful, however, that a study could ever beyond-a-doubt prove a causal relationship.

As Sorenson explained, scientists can?t conduct a random experiment. So, instead, researchers are left with statistical models, which are ?very fragile,? says Charles F. Wellford, who was chair of the committees that authored a lengthy 2004 report on this topic by the National Research Council of the National Academies. These models are subject to what control variables researchers use. ?Everyone knows there?s other things than guns that cause crime,? says Wellford, a professor in the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of Maryland. So these models become very complex and slight changes can cause very different results, he says.

The National Research Council review of the available research on guns and crime found that studies comparing similar geographic areas, such as urban areas to urban areas, known as ?case-control studies,? showed that ?violence is positively associated with firearms ownership.? But when looking at larger areas, such as countries, the National Research Council report found ?contradictory evidence.? Both types of studies, said the report, failed to address factors involved in buying a gun ? it?s not a random decision. And gun ownership data itself is lacking ? it comes only from public opinion surveys.

Eighteen experts participated in the NRC report, including those in criminology, sociology, psychology, economics, public health and statistics. The NRC?s conclusion: ?In summary, the committee concludes that existing research studies and data include a wealth of descriptive information on homicide, suicide, and firearms, but, because of the limitations of existing data and methods, do not credibly demonstrate a causal relationship between the ownership of firearms and the causes or prevention of criminal violence or suicide.?
 

Paul Grant

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2004
3,180
0
CT
.
So when disingenuous people start shouting "Buy guns on the internet!", they are actually misrepresenting true facts hoping to get a knee jerk "Ban 'em all!" reaction from people like Paul.

FYI, I own guns. I need them to protect my livestock from predators. At the beginning of the summer someone in a neighboring town killed a 500 pound black bear attempting to break into one of his barns. The bear was revisiting the barn after killing a miniature donkey earlier. I've never said "ban 'em all" so who's knee jerking here???

http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Bear-heading-to-murdered-Kent-donkey-s-barn-11216523.php
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Now everyone is playing semantics. The fact is. And it is a fact. A man can on his iPad and order an AR15 and have it delivered to his door. Can you take it out of the box and fire it? No. Can you take the lower to your basement or garage or yard and finish it with a router? Yep. And guess what then? You have a gun. It's has no serial number and YOU ordered it off the internet. As I said before - you COULD NOT do that over 30 years ago. So I would say yes. It is indeed easier to purchase a weapon.

You used a paper catalog instead, and ordered from a recliner. Now, with tablets, we are back to the recliner.

I observe your point, but it can't exist in a vacuum. This topic revolves more around very specific definitions than many others.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

emmodg

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2006
4,273
1
"That link you sent me sucks. I can get a complete lower receiver and make a rifle cheaper if cheaper was the way I wanted to go."

You can't ORDER any of what you just said delivered to your door ready-to-fire off of the internet.

Look y'all - I'm not trying to take anyones guns, I simply stated how easy it is to order a gun from the internet. The fact is you can. Period. Again, does it require "skill"? I don't know...you go down to a pawn shop and buy a router for $30 if you don't already own one and follow the template. I'm not sure if you want to call that "machining". I suppose if you've never used a "big scary router" before you should practice a bit on a block of wood. Damn - how easy do y'all want it to be?

Maybe we should all be afraid of "them" taking our routers??
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
"That link you sent me sucks. I can get a complete lower receiver and make a rifle cheaper if cheaper was the way I wanted to go."

You can't ORDER any of what you just said delivered to your door ready-to-fire off of the internet.

Look y'all - I'm not trying to take anyones guns, I simply stated how easy it is to order a gun from the internet. The fact is you can. Period. Again, does it require "skill"? I don't know...you go down to a pawn shop and buy a router for $30 if you don't already own one and follow the template. I'm not sure if you want to call that "machining". I suppose if you've never used a "big scary router" before you should practice a bit on a block of wood. Damn - how easy do y'all want it to be?

Maybe we should all be afraid of "them" taking our routers??

Stop saying 'them'. It was Kennith Mapp, Governor of the USVI. Here, this guy. He took their guns. Any statement defending, complaining or delegitimizing leads me to believe you're okay with that. That's Okay. Just say it. Damn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Mapp
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
All I know is when my wife and I went from our Anthem Blue Cross policy to Connecticare purchased through the ACA (no subsidies) not only did we retain all of our doctors but we saw a substantial drop in our premiums. It was the first time that ever happened in the 14 years we've been buying our own insurance. So, in the case of the ACA, we were very happy with the results.

Our of curiosity, unrelated to guns, how much is yours increasing next year? And how much did it increase in 2017 from 2016? My understanding is that there are only two options left there on the ACA exchange and that both are going to increase premiums for 2018 once again to rather than leave the exchange.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
All I know is when my wife and I went from our Anthem Blue Cross policy to Connecticare purchased through the ACA (no subsidies) not only did we retain all of our doctors but we saw a substantial drop in our premiums. It was the first time that ever happened in the 14 years we've been buying our own insurance. So, in the case of the ACA, we were very happy with the results.

What's your deductible now, though?

The increase for me to move to anything else since ACA dug in it's heels has stuck me right where I am unless I want to lose that $1,000 deductible I've been enjoying; and that's entirely unacceptable.

Everyone I know that looked into it or explored switching now was looking at at least $8,000.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Fucking wonderful...

I'm about to be forced into ACA compliant coverage, and losing my current plan.

So, fuck you Obama.

There goes my $1,000 deductible, and my rate will climb 23%. You know, I'm all about differing opinions, but this shit is nuts.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

bigred

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,457
1
East Coast
www.hillbillytrailcrew.com
Fucking wonderful...

I'm about to be forced into ACA compliant coverage, and losing my current plan.

So, fuck you Obama.

There goes my $1,000 deductible, and my rate will climb 23%. You know, I'm all about differing opinions, but this shit is nuts.

Cheers,

Kennith

You must be mistaken. You can keep your current insurance and your current doctors. I heard it from the man himself.