2011 Mid-Atlantic Rally Sept 29 - Oct 2

[roverover]

Following of 10's? By my count, Randy, about 250 agree with me.

What event did you have that had 250 people? Or are you implying that because they didn't show up at MAR they agree with you?

And why should I run for office? I tell the others exactly what I think. These are not new ideas. Just because you just now heard of it does not make it new. I have been saying this for years.

Telling people what you think is useless for getting anything done other than discouraging them from attending events

Shit, I wrote 12 pages worth of reasonable By-Laws for ROAV and mailed it to them for consideration back in March. This same shit was in those By-Laws. The reason you're just now hearing about it is because ROAV can't communicate for shit what's going on or what's being discussed in their private meetings. They will not tell you. It's weird shit, man. They are the only "club" or origination I've ever heard of that will not tell their members whats going on.

Point and set run for office so you can implement your earth shattering ideas.

As for the Fall URE, what the fuck does that have to do with MAR or ROAV?

Not everything is MAR and ROAV except to you The point is it is an event that is in your favor at this point that is not going to attract 400 trucks. Would this make it a failure...No.

I don't know how many trucks will be there; I've never been myself. But I do know a lot of people are going, and I know of more than one vendor who is going. Are you trying to say URE is the new MAR? Or that URE is trying to be the new MAR?

No again not MAR not ROAV just an event People will go not everybody just everybody who can. And it is bound to be a success to those who go and have fun whether you say so or not

Just my $.02

 

[Doug C]

Some points to consider.

Proxy voting was eliminated. Proxy voting is when you give someone a piece of paper with your proxy and they can vote however they choose. Last year two board members had several proxy votes each and didn't disclose this. These same two individuals were the two who tallied the votes and then added the proxies as they saw fit as they tallied. This was not the intent of the persons signing the proxy forms-I know because one of the proxies voted was mine. Proxy voting isn't absentee voting. While proxy (originally put in the bylaws for military members) voting has been eliminated, absentee voting will be in place for the annual election, ie every member can vote for the 7 candidates of their choice. Intent is to make this a cleaner, better, clearly delineated process for members who can't attend to vote- not make it impossible as Dan states above.

As far as vendors for MAR go- you guys have heard there's a signifigant recession going on ? Of the the many companies contacted many were eager to attend an event where there would be 200+ avid offroad enthusiasts. Several committed to being vendors and would call back a couple days later after figuring out manpower/inventory/transportation costs etc and bailed saying they just couldn't afford it. Even Orvis who has avidly been out giving flycast demonstrations for years declined (they don't have a store manager and the current staff were afraid to send someone out for fear of loosing their jobs). Understand there is no cost to be a vendor-ie come and get free exposure. 20x30 tents can be had for $250 which includes set up and take down-ie...actual cost and are totally optional. While what Dan says about "vendors" attending Uwharrie is true, I know some going as well, I think they are going to participate not stand in a tent vending for three days. The Southern Wine and Spirits rep who has done the rum and scotch tastings the past 4 years was sorely missed this year. His position had been eliminated and Southern Wine and Spirits declined to send another rep to pour several hundred folks free high end booze.
I get what was missed- I missed those things too. Know that the 7 of us that put the event together did make dozens of calls and reach out to many companies. Filson is another example of a company that has been a good sponsor for the past 4 or 5 years. Again when we reached out to the person who had been our contact again her position had been eliminated and they have no budget for sponsorship.

If you were a vendor who hapened on this site and read about people complaining about $100 for a 3 day event, and Widner promissing not to take a shower or criticising people use cell phones and ice, how would your expect your sales to go if you send staff and product ? Many of these companies are barely surviving. Off road gear and accessories are luxury items that we can all live with out and many-especially on this site choose to pick up used these days.

ROAV's tax exempt/non-profit status was re-instated by the IRS and retro'd back to 1996 when the status was first applied for. So at least next years board won't have those worries. Not sure why this wasn't announced Saturday night or put on one of the forms in the registration pack. The letter came through from the IRS a couple of weeks ago.

Daniel definately didn't run the "hardest" trails on the property. The "monster truck challenge" trail claimed enough carnage during practice runs that no one entered the actual event. Dana ran the course with Mike VanCuren spotting him and made it with no damage but wouldn't do it a second time.

Not sure who Dan shared his 12 pages of bylaws suggestions with but this is the first I have heard of it.

 

[seventyfive]

I think it depends on your perspective; aside from the wonder of the 'glory days' of MAR-what's the point you are driving for? Should ROAV strive for that? Is that their mandate? Is attendance the metric of success?

in respect for the people that attended MAR and had a good time, my intentions are not to shit on ROAV or attendees of MAR, i am also a roav member, so i think my opinion should count a little.

first off, im not about nostalgia, so that wasn't my point. i believe in evolution not stagnation. i started going to MAR in '02, it was a blast. '03 was a blast. i don't even remember '04, but i bet it was a blast. (owned a non-rover, so i was a +1). 2010 was my first MAR as a rover owner, and it was a little tamer compared to my last time. didn't go this year because im doing some shit to my truck to get ready for ure, but i'm sure if i went i would have had a good time.

i side with daniel, due to the fact that his and my viewpoint is the same in regards to the event not the politics, in that MAR evolved into a HUGE event. something lacking on the east coast. now, it is toned down a bit. i respect some people's opinion that it is a social event where you get to see people you usually only get to see once a year, but it should also be a once in a year better mark the calendar type event, not just a social reunion.

HOWEVER, if MAR was initially intended to be just a social gathering and to be nothing more EVER, then tough shit. it evolved into a huge, very fun event. if, ROAV's intentions were to keep it mild and low key they would have never let it reach the heights it did. ..........AND that didn't happen because of huge vendor and sponsor donations, unless the cassel's upped their usage fee to their property significantly every year. it happened due to the people that showed up. sorta like king of the hammers.

I HOPE we don't go and fuck it up for old north state this month. their event is meant to be low key, and not some huge deal.

so in summation (i get the feeling a lot of you guys love collegiate type vernacular) MAR should have evolved into the East Coast National, and some of us are upset it did not. if that was not ROAV's intention tough shit, that was the direction it was heading.

 

[seventyfive]

If you were a vendor who hapened on this site and read about people complaining about $100 for a 3 day event how would your expect your sales to go if you send staff and product ? Many of these companies are barely surviving. Off road gear and accessories are luxury items that we can all live with out and many-especially on this site choose to pick up used these days.

with all due respect, it was more than $100. you can't put sole blame on people complaining about the event. vendors don't just choose a location or event solely based on initial sale, they also choose to solicit where they feel their product CAN sell. so if you ARE filson, orvis, rovers north etc, you want to be involved with a somewhat affluent or sophisticated crowd, if you're a business more suited towards hardcore wheelers you want more of a form follows function, don't mind spending the extra buck for protection, type of crowd. so maybe, unfortunately vendors are seeing the majority of modern day rover owners as cheap, you better give me top shelf quality at a budweiser budget type crowd.

 

[Doug C]

with all due respect, it was more than $100. you can't put sole blame on people complaining about the event. vendors don't just choose a location or event solely based on initial sale, they also choose to solicit where they feel their product CAN sell. so if you ARE filson, orvis, rovers north etc, you want to be involved with a somewhat affluent or sophisticated crowd, if you're a business more suited towards hardcore wheelers you want more of a form follows function, don't mind spending the extra buck for protection, type of crowd. so maybe, unfortunately vendors are seeing the majority of modern day rover owners as cheap, you better give me top shelf quality at a budweiser budget type crowd.

Not placing any blame @ all just stating the reality. Rovers North for instance brought up this thread in a conversation with me. We contacted small local 4x4 shops as well as national mail order types.

MAR cost exactly $100 for Thursday through Sunday. Membership renewal was $20. If you didn't register before September 19th event cost went up $20.

 

[seventyfive]

rovers north. funny how rovers north is about the only company left allowed to use rover in their name, while everyone i know up and down the east coast has been sent the letter. they are yesterday, as far as most of us are concerned....unless you own a series.

 

[1920SF]

...so in summation (i get the feeling a lot of you guys love collegiate type vernacular) MAR should have evolved into the East Coast National, and some of us are upset it did not. if that was not ROAV's intention tough shit, that was the direction it was heading.

Your opinion as a ROAV member counts.

It counts a lot more when you take the time to participate in the club-other than going to MAR. It especially counts when you engage as an officer, board member, or some of the unsung people who year after year actually put together the event(s).

Should you have to do this in order to have the event you describe? Maybe not, but the evolution you describe hasn't transpired and if you want to fix it I'd say get more involved.

 

[seventyfive]

Your opinion as a ROAV member counts.

It counts a lot more when you take the time to participate in the club-other than going to MAR. It especially counts when you engage as an officer, board member, or some of the unsung people who year after year actually put together the event(s).

Should you have to do this in order to have the event you describe? Maybe not, but the evolution you describe hasn't transpired and if you want to fix it I'd say get more involved.

you are absolutely correct.

 

[D Chapman]

I think it depends on your perspective; aside from the wonder of the 'glory days' of MAR-what's the point you are driving for? Should ROAV strive for that? Is that their mandate? Is attendance the metric of success?
.

The success is whether or not they make or lose club money. This is a club, remember? They do not necessarily have to make money in large quantities, but that does not mean they must waste it. Why not have a little stash to sit back on? Lower dues. Lower event costs. There are far more pros than cons for having a little extra coin in the bank.

The ABM lost money. The Spring Rally lost money. The Summer Rally hardly broke even. It's yet to be determined whether or not MAR made or lost money. This is just for one year, 2011. You want to talk about 2008, the year you were involved with MAR??? The year where ROAV lost $12,000, then cashed in a $30,000 CD and spent that too?

But the sad fact of it all is that 95% of the membership will never know about all this. Some will never care. While others may care, they'll never know because the so called officers of the club will not post a financial statement even if requested. For fucks sake, they will not even post meeting minutes.

Half of you faggots think I'm some sort of trouble maker with a hard-on for ROAV. But what you do not realize, or at least won't admit to, is that the club officers are wasting YOUR money.

Ray, you helped to plan an event. Why? So the officers could lose some of the club money? If you work hard so the club will have something, aren't you disappointed when it all goes to shit?

....and ROAV wonders why no body wants to help them when they need help.

It's not how many people you have at the event. It's not how many vendors you have. In the past the Spring and Summer Rallies did not have many people nor vendors, and people had a good time. But if you're going to spend $15,000 - or in the case of the 2008 MAR, $88,000 - of the clubs money to host an event, you had better cover your bases. So then comes the need for vendors, who attract people, who bring their pocket books, who pay the club back for the work they've done.

Holy fucking shit, hallelujah, it's fucking rocket science.

 

[D Chapman]

Just my $.02

Randy,
You're alright in my book, but I don't have a fucking clue what you just said.

 

[seventyfive]

The success is whether or not they make or lose club money. This is a club, remember? They do not necessarily have to make money in large quantities, but that does not mean they must waste it. Why not have a little stash to sit back on? Lower dues. Lower event costs. There are far more pros than cons for having a little extra coin in the bank.

The ABM lost money. The Spring Rally lost money. The Summer Rally hardly broke even. It's yet to be determined whether or not MAR made or lost money. This is just for one year, 2011. You want to talk about 2008, the year you were involved with MAR??? The year where ROAV lost $12,000, then cashed in a $30,000 CD and spent that too?

But the sad fact of it all is that 95% of the membership will never know about all this. Some will never care. While others may care, they'll never know because the so called officers of the club will not post a financial statement even if requested. For fucks sake, they will not even post meeting minutes.

Half of you faggots think I'm some sort of trouble maker with a hard-on for ROAV. But what you do not realize, or at least won't admit to, is that the club officers are wasting YOUR money.

Ray, you helped to plan an event. Why? So the officers could lose some of the club money? If you work hard so the club will have something, aren't you disappointed when it all goes to shit?

....and ROAV wonders why no body wants to help them when they need help.

It's not how many people you have at the event. It's not how many vendors you have. In the past the Spring and Summer Rallies did not have many people nor vendors, and people had a good time. But if you're going to spend $15,000 - or in the case of the 2008 MAR, $88,000 - of the clubs money to host an event, you had better cover your bases. So then comes the need for vendors, who attract people, who bring their pocket books, who pay the club back for the work they've done.

Holy fucking shit, hallelujah, it's fucking rocket science.

this from a guy who thinks it should be legal to fuck your sister and marry your mother in law. go away hillbilly.

 

[D Chapman]

Some points to consider.

Proxy voting was eliminated. Proxy voting is when you give someone a piece of paper with your proxy and they can vote however they choose. Last year two board members had several proxy votes each and didn't disclose this. These same two individuals were the two who tallied the votes and then added the proxies as they saw fit as they tallied. This was not the intent of the persons signing the proxy forms-I know because one of the proxies voted was mine. Proxy voting isn't absentee voting. While proxy (originally put in the bylaws for military members) voting has been eliminated, absentee voting will be in place for the annual election, ie every member can vote for the 7 candidates of their choice. Intent is to make this a cleaner, better, clearly delineated process for members who can't attend to vote- not make it impossible as Dan states above.

How the fuck does this work? Candidates are nominated the night of the ABM. No one knows who is running until 10-minutes before a vote is taken. How can members cast an absentee vote if the show is over before it ever gets started?

 

[D Chapman]

As far as vendors for MAR go- you guys have heard there's a signifigant recession going on ? Of the the many companies contacted many were eager to attend an event where there would be 200+ avid offroad enthusiasts. Several committed to being vendors and would call back a couple days later after figuring out manpower/inventory/transportation costs etc and bailed saying they just couldn't afford it. Even Orvis who has avidly been out giving flycast demonstrations for years declined (they don't have a store manager and the current staff were afraid to send someone out for fear of loosing their jobs). Understand there is no cost to be a vendor-ie come and get free exposure. 20x30 tents can be had for $250 which includes set up and take down-ie...actual cost and are totally optional. While what Dan says about "vendors" attending Uwharrie is true, I know some going as well, I think they are going to participate not stand in a tent vending for three days. The Southern Wine and Spirits rep who has done the rum and scotch tastings the past 4 years was sorely missed this year. His position had been eliminated and Southern Wine and Spirits declined to send another rep to pour several hundred folks free high end booze.
I get what was missed- I missed those things too. Know that the 7 of us that put the event together did make dozens of calls and reach out to many companies. Filson is another example of a company that has been a good sponsor for the past 4 or 5 years. Again when we reached out to the person who had been our contact again her position had been eliminated and they have no budget for sponsorship.

I guess the so called "recession" is only happening in Scottesville, VA. Texas Rovers had a rally this year, too. Guess what? Vendors showed up. This was not a 200+ truck event. This was 80 trucks.

How about the National Rally? Guess who showed up there? Vendors. Lots of them.

Remember the Spring URE? Knock, Knock! Who's there? Vendors.

One vendor at MAR, Doug. One. That's all I'm saying.

 

[D Chapman]

Not sure who Dan shared his 12 pages of bylaws suggestions with but this is the first I have heard of it.

I have absolutely no doubt, Doug. It does not surprise me one bit. I'll e-mail you a copy right now.

 

[roverover]

Randy,
You're alright in my book, but I don't have a fucking clue what you just said.

I'll try and type slower for you

 

[D Chapman]

first off, im not about nostalgia, so that wasn't my point. i believe in evolution not stagnation. i started going to MAR in '02, it was a blast. '03 was a blast. i don't even remember '04, but i bet it was a blast. (owned a non-rover, so i was a +1). 2010 was my first MAR as a rover owner, and it was a little tamer compared to my last time. didn't go this year because im doing some shit to my truck to get ready for ure, but i'm sure if i went i would have had a good time.

I remember 2004. That was the year you and t-bone rolled in at mid-night. Here's t-bag 10-minutes after y'all got there.

You ended up looking like this.

And Randy did not have grey hair yet.

And some how Mike make it back to camp.

People still take about this very day. Often. It was 7 years ago. When is the last time you talked about MAR 2008? Or MAR 2009? Or MAR 2010? Yeah, glory days.

 

[1920SF]

The success is whether or not they make or lose club money. This is a club, remember? They do not necessarily have to make money in large quantities, but that does not mean they must waste it. Why not have a little stash to sit back on? Lower dues. Lower event costs. There are far more pros than cons for having a little extra coin in the bank.

The ABM lost money. The Spring Rally lost money. The Summer Rally hardly broke even. It's yet to be determined whether or not MAR made or lost money. This is just for one year, 2011. You want to talk about 2008, the year you were involved with MAR??? The year where ROAV lost $12,000, then cashed in a $30,000 CD and spent that too?

But the sad fact of it all is that 95% of the membership will never know about all this. Some will never care. While others may care, they'll never know because the so called officers of the club will not post a financial statement even if requested. For fucks sake, they will not even post meeting minutes.

Half of you faggots think I'm some sort of trouble maker with a hard-on for ROAV. But what you do not realize, or at least won't admit to, is that the club officers are wasting YOUR money.

Ray, you helped to plan an event. Why? So the officers could lose some of the club money? If you work hard so the club will have something, aren't you disappointed when it all goes to shit?

....and ROAV wonders why no body wants to help them when they need help.

It's not how many people you have at the event. It's not how many vendors you have. In the past the Spring and Summer Rallies did not have many people nor vendors, and people had a good time. But if you're going to spend $15,000 - or in the case of the 2008 MAR, $88,000 - of the clubs money to host an event, you had better cover your bases. So then comes the need for vendors, who attract people, who bring their pocket books, who pay the club back for the work they've done.

Holy fucking shit, hallelujah, it's fucking rocket science.

Actually I got involved in 09, b/c of 08-and the unmitigated disaster that was. 09, wasn't perfect...but made money.

That, on a small scale, is definitely a component of what should be the metrics for success. Is the club making the money to offset other events, is the club making enough money to offset expenses for MAR to reduce attendance fee, etc.

Past that I think there is a danger of losing sight of what really matters. It's far from perfect, and I think there is plenty that could be fixed with some tweaking-but all of it doesn't matter if people don't vote with their time and energy and get involved. Otherwise it's just a lot of bitching online.

 

[D Chapman]

That, on a small scale, is definitely a component of what should be the metrics for success. Is the club making the money to offset other events, is the club making enough money to offset expenses for MAR to reduce attendance fee, etc.

Great questions. Think you can get an answer for us?

 

[seventyfive]

I remember 2004. That was the year you and t-bone rolled in at mid-night. Here's t-bag 10-minutes after y'all got there.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

i think that was the weekend we tied tomas' super duty to his tent at like 1 am, put it in reverse, tugged his tent a little, then threw it in neutral and floored it! i have never seen someone jump out of a tent like that ever. i think it ws also the trip when glessner was going on and on about some fany steakhouse, and me and the hot chick kept doing that Sizzler steakhouse routine, trveor and glessner didn't notice, but everyone else almost shit themselves....in fact i know jj pissed his self during that. then i chased noe thru the philly rovers compound and paul was sitting in his tent at attention and yelled "can i be of service?".
that was a fun weekend.


didn't that air mattress have to get thrown away after that weekend, if i remember?

see if you can find the picture of trevor, someone took, when he passed out in that position and i pulled his hat up high, took his forty out of his hand and put a spatula in one hand and squirt tube of mustard in the other!!!!!!

 

[1920SF]

Great questions. Think you can get an answer for us?

Perhaps. I think a better way to frame it would be that we both go to the ABM and see where that lands us.