2020 Defender

[kennith]

Aftermarket bumpers will be very challenging on this. I believe there are auxiliary coolers up front that will need air flow, to say nothing of the various collision/blind spot sensors that aren’t going to function with a sheet of steel suddenly placed in front of them.

I really don't think it will be as bad as the LR3/LR4 bumpers, and certainly less technical than the D5. That vehicle isn't really fair to fabricators. Even if they can do a good job, it'll be hard to find someone to pay for it.

Even if the Defender has the radiators in the same locations, and it probably does, it shouldn't be as bad. That bumper doesn't actually have to be super high off the ground. All it needs to do is provide an armored lower valance and a place to mount a brush bar, a winch and at the very least a couple of lights. With those two black corner finishers and the central trim removed, I think there's enough room in there for a relatively simple shape.

How hard it is to find mounting points is another game, but I don't think the shape will be skill or cost prohibitive. There are a few vehicles out there with those high diagonal body lines, and they all pretty much look like ass with a winch bumper. Dragging those cuts down to the valance area removes a pretty significant obstacle.

It's never going to be as easy as the old one, but that thing doesn't even count. That's nearly as simple as bolting one piece of square tube to a vehicle.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Quick-access side storage is great, as long as you don't use it in forested areas.



The wrapped ones are going to be great for the used market. No UV or abrasive wear to the paint, even years down the road.



It was though, at least partially. The leisure market emerged before and continued through Defender development.

The angles still matter. All the traction in the world wont get you through deep ruts, holes, small steep hills, etc if you're dragging, at least without damage.

I'm sure those will hold up to most sticks and small branches just fine. Even one of those early '90s Samsonite suitcases would. They'd get scratched up, but then again they're protected by vinyl; or whatever film Land Rover is using.

As long as they don't tear the side of the car off, I don't really see an issue. They just need to have engineered failure points in the mounting solution.

If it breaks, that's fine so long as the vehicle is largely fine. I mean, people are laying adventure bikes down at 50mph and not losing a single Tic Tac from the saddle bags. Surely Land Rover can build a plastic box at least that tough and then mount it to something weaker.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[discostew]

I don't know if that stuff is a regular wrap or what, it's like a $4000 option.

 

[SCSL]

Why the Internet Was Always Going to Hate the New Land Rover Defender

Land Rover’s off-roader is no longer just a vehicle. It’s a symbol.

www.insidehook.com

 

[fishEH]

Why the Internet Was Always Going to Hate the New Land Rover Defender

Land Rover’s off-roader is no longer just a vehicle. It’s a symbol.

www.insidehook.com

Just look at all that ground clearance!!
This picture is why approach angle isn't everything.

 

[DiscoHasBeen]

Just look at all that ground clearance!!
This picture is why approach angle isn't everything. View attachment 57314

Maybe they can program it like the new corvette, where it automatically raises its front end to make it over speed bumps etc.

What a fucking joke.

 

[kennith]

Don't be a context-deleting asshole.

It's straddling a ridge-like feature coming out of a low spot on an incline. An old Defender would be very close to sacrificing axle tube paint in a few seconds. Stock for stock, man. The Defender did nearly all it's legendary work in showroom configuration.

Keep the criticism on target, because if it's not, it's an assault on reason. There's enough of that shit going around. Keep it out of fun stuff.



Cheers,

Kennith

 

[ERover82]

Don't be a context-deleting asshole.

It's straddling a ridge-like feature coming out of a low spot on an incline. An old Defender would be very close to sacrificing axle tube paint in a few seconds. Stock for stock, man. The Defender did nearly all it's legendary work in showroom configuration.

Keep the criticism on target, because if it's not, it's an assault on reason. There's enough of that shit going around. Keep it out of fun stuff.

View attachment 57315

Cheers,

Kennith

Looked at this pic before. Stock, both would place soft bits in harm's way. The diff cover in the classic's case, or body work in the Newfender's, and who knows what's under there at this point. We do know the underbody panels are made from soft pressed fiber material. Of course diff guards and bash plates can be fitted. The Newfender should, upon sensing the grounding out in the front end, raise the suspension further. A classic might drag a nearly impervious chunk of iron. Take your pick.

 

[fishEH]

The "ridge" was still visible in the pic I posted. Don't get your panties in a bunch, Kenny. I'd rather drag a diff that can easily be protected than an integral part of the plastic bumper. Maybe its just an unflattering shot, but it seems like there's a plethora of those going around.
I've yet to see any bash plate / steering protector worth a damn. They all bend and get severely tweaked with even light contact. That's why I never understood people that installed them on the D1/D2. Sure they look neat, but they actually give you less clearance and don't do shit to protect anything.

And can we talk about that case on the passenger side!? Is there any question about the morons that designed this vehicle!?? "Let's put a GIANT piece of trim creating a nice blind spot for the driver! Let's make that blind spot even bigger by placing some dumb external storage box on the outside!"

I mean good grief! If they simply MUST have these dorky accessories just for the sake of looking the part, at least put the ladder on the passenger giving the driver a little visibility and the case on the driver side where the driver can't see anyway.

Don't be a context-deleting asshole.

It's straddling a ridge-like feature coming out of a low spot on an incline. An old Defender would be very close to sacrificing axle tube paint in a few seconds. Stock for stock, man. The Defender did nearly all it's legendary work in showroom configuration.

Keep the criticism on target, because if it's not, it's an assault on reason. There's enough of that shit going around. Keep it out of fun stuff.

View attachment 57315

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[mgreenspan]

So just playing devils advocate, the soft under plates could have just been for the auto show. It’s entirely possible that production models will have actual skid plates. I’m confused by all the panties that have been wadded up over those.

 

[CORover]

A REALLY long way to go to get there but the journey is worth it. He makes some valid points for the fence sitters and has some incredible adventures. I watched it, all 2 plus hours in smaller chunks, and like a good book, found it hard to turn off near the end.

 

[ERover82]

A REALLY long way to go to get there but the journey is worth it. He makes some valid points for the fence sitters and has some incredible adventures. I watched it, all 2 plus hours in smaller chunks, and like a good book, found it hard to turn off near the end.

He made the obvious case that it had to evolve for today's needs. However, I remain unconvinced it had to have such an ugly front end, start wheel options at 18s, offer suspension that appears to be unimproved from the D5, and axe the soft-top and ute configurations.

 

[kennith]

The "ridge" was still visible in the pic I posted. Don't get your panties in a bunch, Kenny. I'd rather drag a diff that can easily be protected than an integral part of the plastic bumper. Maybe its just an unflattering shot, but it seems like there's a plethora of those going around.
I've yet to see any bash plate / steering protector worth a damn. They all bend and get severely tweaked with even light contact. That's why I never understood people that installed them on the D1/D2. Sure they look neat, but they actually give you less clearance and don't do shit to protect anything.

And can we talk about that case on the passenger side!? Is there any question about the morons that designed this vehicle!?? "Let's put a GIANT piece of trim creating a nice blind spot for the driver! Let's make that blind spot even bigger by placing some dumb external storage box on the outside!"

I mean good grief! If they simply MUST have these dorky accessories just for the sake of looking the part, at least put the ladder on the passenger giving the driver a little visibility and the case on the driver side where the driver can't see anyway.

That case on the side is outstanding... Literally and figuratively. It's not like you have to buy it, anyway.

Maybe you're seven feet tall. I'm not. Working out in the middle of nowhere, access to frequently used equipment speeds things up a lot, anyway. This is not a new feature by a long shot; this is just the first time of which I am aware you get one styled for the vehicle. If you want visibility problems, buy a Toyota or be like 75% of Rover owners and cover that window with stickers.

Your roof rack is actually much more ridiculous. Roof racks are stupid for most people; even SD racks. The only reason I have one on my roof is to add another layer of roof with a floor for improved climate control. There are two more benefits: Easy grab handles everywhere, and to have the "top of Rover" Christmas tree experience.

I have never, not once in my time, taken that DII anywhere important with a rack on the roof. What's stupider: A suitcase on the side of a car, or mounting a supplementary fuel supply seven inches above the roof-line of one of the tallest SUVs ever sold?

As for dragging... I don't remember what you have, but let's call it a DII. It doesn't really matter. Your vehicle came with a panel that wasn't removable. You had to break out a saw and cut 3/4 of your bumper off the car or replace the whole bumper; which you've done. D1 owners have to cut up their sheet metal to fit tires the size this Defender sits on in the showroom.

I actually found a good picture of the thing, but I seem to have lost it and don't see it in searches at the moment.

There are indeed a lot of unflattering shots out there. They send it to Africa to try to make us happy, and they park it in odd positions on dirt for everyone else. The problem is, American off-pavement enthusiasts think trails are tough, adventurey things that deserve a sticker purchase.

It's a damned full convoy on a camping trip, and half of you nutters can't manage to get through Uwharrie without breaking something. Many who are complaining about the platform couldn't drive their way out of a wet paper bag. The platform isn't the potential problem. That falls squarely on whether or not that wizardry will hold up; and even Land Rover thought it wise to offer analog gauges as an option.

I'll say it again: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the overall design intent of that chassis. The only things I'm worried about involve the stuff running it; not from a reliability perspective, either... I just don't want to be annoyed by features I hate. It would be nice if that panel has enough room behind it for a steel basket and lower valance, but whatever. Someone will figure it out if it doesn't.

That's for hitting animals, cars, fences, people, and walls; not rocks. You just choose to hit rocks with it.

Land Rover doesn't know marketing. The Africa stuff should have been more focused on the people than the cars. The average consumer wants to feel like they care, even though they don't. The trail stuff should have been more focused on getting out and breathing fresh mountain air than rock hopping and blasting through snow and dunes, because the average consumer wants to feel like they understand nature.

As for us? We should have been entirely ignored in marketing. Most Rover enthusiasts can't afford it. The rest will bitch no matter what, because despite their affinity for "tradition", they've never done a single "traditional" thing in their Defenders. It's like playing Candy Crush and calling yourself a "gamer".

Newsflash: You're not a gamer. Stop thinking you have any business commenting on the CS:Source community, because you don't. That applies directly to off-pavement driving. Most Rover enthusiasts aren't "overlanders". They're Glampers. They're not off-pavement drivers, they're no better than people who go on one of those corporate "team-building" exercises. It's a joke; a fun joke, but a joke nonetheless.

If you encounter that kind of pompous asshole in a marketing push, disengage immediately and refocus. That's where Land Rover fucked up, and that's where they always fuck up. Well that, and the fact that Range Rover shouldn't be it's own brand umbrella. That's their biggest mistake by far; one on which they seem hell bent on doubling down.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[fishEH]

That window box is gimmicky as hell and it's in the worst spot possible. Put it on the rear tire where it's still easily accessible, won't get ripped off by a tree, and won't cause a huge blind spot.

I drive a D1, 99% of the time with nothing on the roof. I have an SD rack I've never and will never use. I have Thule bars if I want to carry a canoe or my Yakima Skybox. And I have a RockStar Fab roof slider rack, built from DOM this thing won't bend if you lean it into a tree, bank, or rock.

That case on the side is outstanding... Literally and figuratively. It's not like you have to buy it, anyway.

Maybe you're seven feet tall. I'm not. Working out in the middle of nowhere, access to frequently used equipment speeds things up a lot, anyway. This is not a new feature by a long shot; this is just the first time of which I am aware you get one styled for the vehicle. If you want visibility problems, buy a Toyota or be like 75% of Rover owners and cover that window with stickers.

Your roof rack is actually much more ridiculous. Roof racks are stupid for most people; even SD racks. The only reason I have one on my roof is to add another layer of roof with a floor for improved climate control. There are two more benefits: Easy grab handles everywhere, and to have the "top of Rover" Christmas tree experience.

I have never, not once in my time, taken that DII anywhere important with a rack on the roof. What's stupider: A suitcase on the side of a car, or mounting a supplementary fuel supply seven inches above the roof-line of one of the tallest SUVs ever sold?

As for dragging... I don't remember what you have, but let's call it a DII. It doesn't really matter. Your vehicle came with a panel that wasn't removable. You had to break out a saw and cut 3/4 of your bumper off the car or replace the whole bumper; which you've done. D1 owners have to cut up their sheet metal to fit tires the size this Defender sits on in the showroom.

I actually found a good picture of the thing, but I seem to have lost it and don't see it in searches at the moment.

There are indeed a lot of unflattering shots out there. They send it to Africa to try to make us happy, and they park it in odd positions on dirt for everyone else. The problem is, American off-pavement enthusiasts think trails are tough, adventurey things that deserve a sticker purchase.

It's a damned full convoy on a camping trip, and half of you nutters can't manage to get through Uwharrie without breaking something. Many who are complaining about the platform couldn't drive their way out of a wet paper bag. The platform isn't the potential problem. That falls squarely on whether or not that wizardry will hold up; and even Land Rover thought it wise to offer analog gauges as an option.

I'll say it again: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the overall design intent of that chassis. The only things I'm worried about involve the stuff running it; not from a reliability perspective, either... I just don't want to be annoyed by features I hate. It would be nice if that panel has enough room behind it for a steel basket and lower valance, but whatever. Someone will figure it out if it doesn't.

That's for hitting animals, cars, fences, people, and walls; not rocks. You just choose to hit rocks with it.

Land Rover doesn't know marketing. The Africa stuff should have been more focused on the people than the cars. The average consumer wants to feel like they care, even though they don't. The trail stuff should have been more focused on getting out and breathing fresh mountain air than rock hopping and blasting through snow and dunes, because the average consumer wants to feel like they understand nature.

As for us? We should have been entirely ignored in marketing. Most Rover enthusiasts can't afford it. The rest will bitch no matter what, because despite their affinity for "tradition", they've never done a single "traditional" thing in their Defenders. It's like playing Candy Crush and calling yourself a "gamer".

Newsflash: You're not a gamer. Stop thinking you have any business commenting on the CS:Source community, because you don't. That applies directly to off-pavement driving. Most Rover enthusiasts aren't "overlanders". They're Glampers. They're not off-pavement drivers, they're no better than people who go on one of those corporate "team-building" exercises. It's a joke; a fun joke, but a joke nonetheless.

If you encounter that kind of pompous asshole in a marketing push, disengage immediately and refocus. That's where Land Rover fucked up, and that's where they always fuck up. Well that, and the fact that Range Rover shouldn't be it's own brand umbrella. That's their biggest mistake by far; one on which they seem hell bent on doubling down.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[ERover82]

The rest will bitch no matter what, because despite their affinity for "tradition", they've never done a single "traditional" thing in their Defenders. It's like playing Candy Crush and calling yourself a "gamer".

History suggests otherwise. For example..

 

[kennith]

That window box is gimmicky as hell and it's in the worst spot possible. Put it on the rear tire where it's still easily accessible, won't get ripped off by a tree, and won't cause a huge blind spot.

I drive a D1, 99% of the time with nothing on the roof. I have an SD rack I've never and will never use. I have Thule bars if I want to carry a canoe or my Yakima Skybox. And I have a RockStar Fab roof slider rack, built from DOM this thing won't bend if you lean it into a tree, bank, or rock.

How many side mirrors have you ripped off on trees? I know that box is on the rear which cuts the corner, but even so it doesn't stick out any farther. I've no interest in blind spot complaints from people. If anyone gave a shit, the 4Runner would be under recall for body modification. Nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about anymore.

If I want to make a blind spot, that's my business. Everyone else can have fun repeatedly paying forty grand for them, or covering their windows with too much camping crap inside and a bunch of stickers. The whole topic is irrelevant.

As for it getting in the way... Where? Forests? Deserts? Trails? Jungles? TRAILS. That's where it's potentially in the way; Tight, technical forest trails. I don't give a fuck about that when half the people running them are in those gigantic Raptors nowadays. Again, the point is not relevant. Half the world hangs crap off he side of their vehicles (water, fuel, chickens...) nearly 100% of the time and drive around in "trail conditions". It's not a problem.

Get behind the wheel of a clapped out Hilux with jugs handing off every bedside cleat and drive somewhere. You'll be fine, and they're sticking out a full foot at the least; banging around all over the place the whole time. You don't actually hit the things very often.

Whatever, though... If you don't like the saddlebag, don't buy it. You going to hate on the inflatable tent option, too?

Ever seen an SD rack take a hit? I've seen over a hundred, on solid concrete, within a matter of minutes, hard enough to squat the vehicle on every impact. I've got a few scratches and a subtle dip in one spot. That's all; and they had sense enough to build it to eventually give a bit before it's attachment location, and I can easily pick the whole thing up with one finger.

Stick that in your DOM RockStar tube and smoke it.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

History suggests otherwise. For example..

That's just bolstering my point; not very well, because that's a pretty sucky scavenger hunt rallye, but it's being bolstered nonetheless.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[ERover82]

That's just bolstering my point; not very well, because that's a pretty sucky scavenger hunt rallye, but it's being bolstered nonetheless.

Cheers,

Kennith

The majority of classic owners are using them for recreation and around town, taking the dog out, hauling material for projects, camping, weekend wheeling, the occasional longer trip, club events, etc. History suggests this is traditional and I'm not even talking Defender years yet.

 

[ERover82]

To be traditional, must I jump my landy into the next water crossing? Are we really required to drag logs with capstans and mill the lumber for our tudor revival homes with rear PTO saws? Must I use various Rover drawn farm implements to sow next year's crop?

 

[kennith]

The majority of classic owners are using them for recreation and around town, taking the dog out, hauling material for projects, camping, weekend wheeling, the occasional longer trip, club events, etc. History suggests this is traditional and I'm not even talking Defender years yet.

Oh, you're right about that, certainly. That's what many new owners do, as well; but a Subaru will handle that, and that's why "traditional" was in quotes. When people consider that tradition, they're not thinking of walking the dog or camping. They are imagining something else entirely. We both know that.

I'm referring to what people actually imagine; those activities for which the Defender so long proved itself indispensable: Things like farming, expedition travel, remote deliveries, relief efforts, actual exploration, getting harsh work done in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of thousands of off-pavement miles; these are the activities that built the Defender, if not in volume in spectacle.

It would have remained no more than a quaint British farm truck otherwise. We'd have likely never seen them on these shores.

People think of that adventurous image involving capstans, hairy chests, and cigarettes. They equate that image of adventure to trail use; and the two couldn't be more different. They have different requirements, and compromise in different ways.

Cheers,

Kennith