Am I crazy to want a 1989 110 to restore?

[Zarati]

Hey guys,
I know this is Disco Web but I need some serious help. i'm actually considering buying a 1989 Defender 110 thats in dire need of serious help. UGh!!! I think the fact that I'm even considering it means I need serious help.
So let me illistrate my position.
I live in the USA.
I took a job for 1-2 years in Belize, Central America.
I have a companty vehicle "Kia K2700 4x4 quadcab if anyone cares" It does come stock with a snorkel but the Wheel Travel SUCKS" Point is that I dont NEED a project.
But I've always wanted a 110 and cant afford an NAS Defender 110.
SO...there is a 1989 GAS 110 that has seriously rusted side sills but appears to have a good frame.
LABOR in Belize is CHEAP. ANd there is a Land Rover "Specialist" that restores them Belize Style down the road about 60k. If you've ever visited Belize then you'll understand "Belize Style" everything is done half assed. BUT
His Aluminum welding skill seems sound and basically makes his own sills, etc to patch in. He sandblasts the entire frame down usually but has not good paint. I plan to provide him with POR-15 to Paint the Frame with.
The vehicle is a 2.5 GAS motor. That will eventually have to go but not initially as it runs and what I WANT is a 2.8powerstroke diesel in there.
Oh yea, and I work 6-days a week, maybe 70hrs a week down here so I dont have much free time. But I plan to contract out 1/2 the work.
SO
1) Am I CRAZY. Ok, yes, but how Crazy.
2) I coujld get it for $2,000usd. That seems reasonable for a chassis to start with.
3) Can you BUY a NEW Bulkhead?
4) Am I Crazy?
5) How do I get it legal in the USA. My plan is to do the Chassis and Engien swap down here. Get the body panels welded and get the entire floor "line-x" or Rhinolined". Then wait to properly paint the exterior until I bring it to the states where I can have a REAL Bodyshop prep and spray it.
6) Whats needed to bring a Defender or 110 into the states. I know people do it but how. IS it legal or does it require "smoke and mirrors" with vin Numbers, etc from other vehicles..

Let the comments Roll.
Nice to see D-Web back up andd running.
l8r
Todd "drining a beer in Belize"

 

[Leslie]

A) It would not be able to be brought into the US legally until 2014.

B) New Defender bulkheads are available.

C) I don't intend this as a prejudiced comment, but if, as you said, the "Belize Style is half-assed", then it sounds like the end result will be half-assed at best....





FWIW....


-L

 

[Zarati]

Hmm,
I have AMPLE Rusting 109's to choose from. Whats required to make my 110 a 109. If people turn 109's into 110's with 110 running gear, can I put a 109 Builhead or something on it and then import it as a 109?
As far as the Half Assed thing. Thats why I'd have the real body work done in the states. but I'd want to drive it down here. I could do the frame work, that is cheap and this guy is pretty good but lacks the good quality paint, etc that we have int he states. I can supply it to him. Thinks like new rubber seals, new SS Brake Lines, etc are things I"D have to do Myself. Basically, hire out the dirty work. Do the fun re-assembly myself. Epoxy primer it. Then put a coat of the best paint I can find on it myself and repaint when I get home. Or not paint at all. A good Epoxy Primer is more durable than many paints.
But thee 1/2 assed is a valid concern.
Thanks for the input.
Todd

 

[syoung]

wonder what they'd paint the chassis with after stealing the POR15 and selling it.

If by "smoke and mirrors" with the VIN you mean felony fraud, I'd suggest avoiding it. See if you can find a 1993 chassis and THEN you're cookin with gas as they say.

 

[antichrist]

For $2000 it seems it would be worth buying, driving around down there, then shipping some land rover parts home before you come back. I'd leave the engine in Belize and put a 2.8 Powerstroke in your hybrid you build here when you get back.
But as Steve says, don't try to falsify VIN plates....even a Land Rover is worth going to jail for.

 

[Blueboy]

Whats required to make my 110 a 109. If people turn 109's into 110's with 110 running gear, can I put a 109 Builhead or something on it and then import it as a 109?

you don't really turn a 109 into a 110. they are similiar, yet, not the same.

my 109 is on 110 running gear including a 4.0 engine and it is very different from my '03 110 with Tdi engine.

the 110 is based on the 109, yet, they really are different beasts.

enjoy Belize. we were to take a trip there and got transferred to Brasil before we could make it.

imho forget fixing up a beat up 110 to bring it back to the US. it will not be legal no matter what you do - unless you start with a 1993. even then, the road is not easy.

quick issue to consider - is the glass DOT approved? if not, all new glass is needed. any non-DOT approved item has to be removed and then replaced.

I'm working on how to get my 2003 110 back in now so it will be ready when the time comes.


Jaime

 

[cdmbrennan]

Don't try it...

Todd,

In response to your question about bringing back the 110- the official rule for the US is 25+ plus. Virtually no exceptions (google importing auto requirements). I just imported a '78 Series III from Scotland and it was no walk in the park, though good fun along the way.

There is no legal way of rebranding a 110 as a 109 and importing as such. If discovered, Customs will impound the car and ship back (at your expense) or destroy the vehicle (again, your expense) and you'll get in a whole heck of a lot of trouble. My import should have been easy as anything- I had a DOT waiver, US Dept. of Agric. waiver, all the correct customs forms, bill of sale, MOT (safety inspection), steam cleaning, AND a letter from Land Rover NA from the UK verifying the date of manufacture and it still took awhile to bring it into the US.

That being said...

I have read where it is possible to ship over parts in separate containers- i.e., dissemble the 110, stick a few parts in one container along with some miscellaneous other parts, ship, wait a few weeks, ship another container with parts, etc., etc. Once in the States, and assuming that none of your containers were seized, reassemble the vehicle as a "kit car", have it inspected and titled as such. Big hassle and big dollars for no guarantee of a complete vehicle on this side of the water.

IMHO, I would wait 4 years and bring in a 110 legally (a 1983 one, that is) , as I believe that was the first year 110s were produced. (I might be incorrect in thinking 83 was the banner year).

Then strip, source a new engine, swap some panels if necessary, and you've got a nice 110.

As an FYI, if you do strip the paint, I believe that sandblasting is not recommended, as it can severely eat into the Birmabright aluminum underneath (if someone knows otherwise, please post). The best bet would be to use a liquid/paste stripper (Eastwood has one) and take your time. And make sure you use an etch primer before painting in order to really key the surface so the paint can adhere.

Hope this helps.

Chris B
98 Disco I
78 Series III

 

[Blueboy]

In response to your question about bringing back the 110- the official rule for the US is 25+ plus. Virtually no exceptions

actually, that is not totally correct. a 1993 110 from other Countries can be imported through a "Registered Importer" and then they bring it up to D.O.T. codes based on the year of manufacture. in the 110 case, the external roll cage I think is required for the 5 door SW version. NHSTA publishes a list of vehicles that can be federalized.

it helps the cost if that Country uses DOT approved glass and wheels (like Brasil hehe), yet, even that can be installed by the RI if necessary.


Jaime

 

[Timmy!!!!!!!]

I dunno if this is at all pratical but what if you drive the Land Rover up across the border with mexico and the u.s. and then register the land rover as a kit car.

 

[Zarati]

Thanks for the input.

I think I've eliminated trying to drive it in as a 109". That wont work. That leaves the parts importing trick.

So, assuming I can get the parts in. Then what is needed. How does one register a "KIT KAR" and what limitations etc are on it. Can you insure it, can you carry the family and haul the boat with normal insurance? Or are there milage and other limitations.

Is there a professional company that specializes in this. If so can I pay them a fee to help or am I totally on my own.

Thanks
Todd

 

[EricSiepmann]

Why bother? You can build a 110 with parts available in the US at the same cost. Find a beat or salvaged 90 and use that as a base. Basically the ECR route. A G4 110 was recently brought into the country illegally as a proverbial parts car. Guess what? It was seized and is up for auction in NOLA. Several vendors have or can get 110 parts.

EwS

 

[Leslie]

I saw that one over on http://www.roverporn.com .... that would be sweet to build.....



I agree, the best way to do it is to get a D90, then get a 110 chassis and rear tub, and combine them. Yes, there are places that do this, other than ECR even.


A "kit car" comes, well, as a kit. Part of that kit is a letter to take along when you register it. A Land Rover isn't a kit car, it is an actual vehicle. Some states have provisions allowing registration of a "reconstructed vehicle", while others prohibit such. A "specially constructed vehicle" is a route that some people have tred, but it really doesn't apply in this case any better than the kit car route.



-L


(yes, Range Rover axles were used on that one, which is why the cyclones were on still on there at that time. But they went away.... )

 

[syoung]

You could take an OLD chassis (25+ years) or even get a new replacement chassis and register a constructed vehicle based on the chassis year and model.
There's people all over the place with those horrible fake cobras registering them as 65-67 Cobras on the title. They use old engines or replacement engines made for that particular year and base the car registration on it. Different states have different requirements. Some states are so easy, there are businesses who "wash" titles through those states.
I can't tell you how many late model old style Minis I've had to wade through that had fake VIN, bogus documentation and all kinds of illegal bull before I found a REAL vintage mini in good shape.

 

[jabber]

Do a search on d-90.com

It's been beaten to death! The ONLY legal way that I know of is to bring a portion of the parts over at a time.... If spread out over the course of time and the parts are all NOT from the same vehicle. It should be "no problem". I use those words lightly. You should then be able to register it as a "kit car". But the cost would be comparable to just requisitioning one from say ECR.... upwards of 60-80K.

I just heard that George from Rovers Down South got pinched trying to bring a G4 110 over. Now he's just trying to sell the shell...

People have spent a LOT of time and money tried to F the system. Sometime they win, but sometimes they lose!!! I'd hate to be a looser!!! Shitload of money down the drain!!!

 

[Leslie]

Mike,

Have you ever even talked to Uncle George???


When people have them confiscated, he goes and gets them from Customs and parts them out.... that's how he gets things like that G$ in the link I posted above. Do you expect us to believe for one minute that if HE was the one that was busted trying to import it, that he would still be the one who would be able to part it out?? Reality check......

And it is NOT a kit..... has anyone who says "register it as a kit car" ever actually dealt with kit cars??





-L

 

[syoung]

I've dealt with kit cars. Most states don't differentiate between an actual kit and something you put together out of various parts on your own. The 'kit car' classification 90% of the time covers both. In many cases, you can take the year/type of the chassis and put ANYTHING you want on it and keep it registered as the donor of the chassis. The way I'd go with it is to use a replica/reproduction chassis for a 25+ year old Rover, and cut the VIN plate off the retired/junked Rover the new one will replace in the world. As long as the new chassis is the direct replacement for the junked one- it can then assume the junked vehicle's identity. I've seen this process done before, especially with the MGB Heritage rebody kit cars. You can essentially buy a NEW MGB with 100% new parts, but the VIN is from the rustbucket that it replaces that will never see the light of day again.
Now, I have heard of some states requiring a percentage of content from the old vehicle to the new one. Not sure this exists anymore, but something to check. If it does exist, then using the body or engine from the donor usually meets it. So you put off the body replacement until after it's registered etc. or run the old engine for awhile.

 

[EricSiepmann]

I just heard that George from Rovers Down South got pinched trying to bring a G4 110 over. Now he's just trying to sell the shell...

Nope. The 110 G4 was purchased by George from customs. George knows better than to bring a complete 110 into the country. Doesn't need to either. He's got every part to assemble one in his shop...

EwS

 

[Zarati]

Wow,
My actually created a thread that got some responses. Seems there are a LOT of different Opinions out there. What to Do. What to do.
The problem with the "PUrchase a D90 and stretch it" idea is that a D90 still costs $30,000usd. OUCH.
This rig will cost me $2,000 or less. And after stripping and painting the Chassis / Axles / Etc I'll only have Maybe $5,000 USD into it with new suspension bushings, New Shocks, Stock Everything else. I know I can get a 20ft Coontainer from Belize to Miami for $990usd. But Miami is the wrong corner of the Country. Then I'd have another $1500 or more to rail it to Seattle.
IF I do this I'm sure I could find some other rover parts that people would want to throw in the container to fill it up and make it look less like "a disasembled Car" and more like "A PILE OF PARTS". If only I could find a good Forward Control Chassis.
Well, I think I'll sit on it. wait and see if he'll drop the price more and If I can get it for even less and I'm sure I WILL Be here for 2-years then I can buy it. Worst comes to worse, I sell the car or the parts down here.
Thanks for the input. Keep the tread going though. I like hearing everyones opinions.

Todd "Live from Belize, under a Palapa in the middle of nowhere using someones Wireless Hub operatiing off of Satellite".

HEY: If any Rover Nuts make it to the Northern Half of Belize or to Chetumal Mexico "right across the border" then drop me an E-mail and we can meed up for a drink.

 

[JSQ]

get it.

change it.

keep it.



but i suggest you don't buy the cheapest, rustiest 110 you can find. Why not spend a few extra bucks now that you'd just have to spend later. I'm guessing that if 2k will buy you a junker than 4k will buy you a runner eh?

 

[ptschram]

I have seen so many trucks that aren't supposed to be here that they no longer excite me. I just worked on a Rover Mini that is badged as a 1965 Aston Martin.

I am currently storing a 109/110 with a 3.9. Sweet truck.

I bid on a job to assemble multiple 110s that were to be imported. The individual I was speaking with had successfully imported several containers full of partially disassembled 110s (complete with TDis and Salisbury axles).

The coolest one was in central Michigan and was here on a non-US passport. It was down to single digit days before it had to leave when I saw it. The owner told me it was cheaper to import than pay to store it in London.