Another good one on LRF

[garrett]

I brought it up here because I didn't want to get into any of the LRF shitstorm.
I've been leery of chains until about 12 years ago when Bill Gill dragged my brother's jeep off its belly with a grade-80 chain without any drama. The chain, compared to steel cable, practically does not stretch, and supposed to fail in a way more like synthetic rope (I haven't seen chain breaking, so I can't claim knowledge). Chain is a lot cheaper than a good quality recovery rope, and it doesn't get fucked up when someone you're recovering runs over it (I probably discarded about $150 in recovery straps damaged this way).
On the other hand, your words somewhat reflect the type of off-roading you do - more mud than rocks.

Well chain does stretch. Likely more than steel cable too, but that's not the issue.

No it doesn't fail like synthetic rope. Synthetic rope fails in a safer way because it has less mass (weight). There is no comparison.

Chain is not cheaper than a quality strap that can be use in BOTH a static and dynamic recovery, since a quality nylon recovery strap has up to about 10% stretch. You can drive over a strap just fine - just don't spin and get it wrapped around a tire. The same can be done with synthetic winch rope - I prefer people drive over it and stop somewhere safe instead of freaking out about driving over it and stopping 3/4 the way up a hill. It's not going to hurt it. We do it all the time with all our gear.

 

[garrett]

The only problem I do have with Kinetic ropes are what people occasionally attach them to. Recovery points have to be especially solid when using kinetic ropes as the force is multiplied significantly. I wouldn't touch any rusty recovery points with a kinetic rope, or really anything that stretches and creates a dynamic force.

Yep. People don't realize the amount of force/energy that is going on. Just because it's a soft "rope" doesn't mean it doesn't store a shit load of potential energy. We've had recovery points on bumpers fail and the rope comes flying back with a shackle attached to it.

 

[p m]

2) Chain is heavy, heavy equals mass, mass equals energy when it breaks.

chain does stretch. Likely more than steel cable too

Garrett, physics is not your strong suit.

It doesn't mean you're wrong; as I stated, I haven't seen [edit: more than one] chain failures, so I may be talking out of my ass here. My reasoning for chain failure is that once the chain breaks, links quickly lose contact with each other - unlike steel cable.

I have seen a chain break on deck of the ship when a 2500-lb buy went AWOL. It just broke; the part remaining on deck remained where it was, and other went overboard.

 

[slangel]

Oh my god Bill!! I read all of it ( I know sad, kid napping, Von C snoring on the couch, and I needed entertainment while drinking my vodka), laughed my ass off. I double dare you have him build a cage for the 110.

 

[Mike_Rupp]

Especially if you carry snatch blocks. Perfect situation for them. Slows the recovery down and reduces the load on the winch.

People can get carried away with K rope. You need enough room to use K rope and too often people start using too much throttle and they are bouncing off trees.

I've got a hydraulic winch. It's slow enough already. When you divide really slow by 2 you still equal really slow.

 

[garrett]

Garrett, physics is not your strong suit.

It doesn't mean you're wrong; as I stated, I haven't seen [edit: more than one] chain failures, so I may be talking out of my ass here. My reasoning for chain failure is that once the chain breaks, links quickly lose contact with each other - unlike steel cable.

I have seen a chain break on deck of the ship when a 2500-lb buy went AWOL. It just broke; the part remaining on deck remained where it was, and other went overboard.

I've only seen one chain break. They can either break an attachment or itself - but yes I've heard some say they drop, but the one I saw break didn't do that.

Now I've seen steel line break many times. Usually because someone was doing something stupid - that was the most violent gear I've seen.

 

[DiscoPhoto]

Garrett, physics is not your strong suit.

It doesn't mean you're wrong; as I stated, I haven't seen [edit: more than one] chain failures, so I may be talking out of my ass here. My reasoning for chain failure is that once the chain breaks, links quickly lose contact with each other - unlike steel cable.

I have seen a chain break on deck of the ship when a 2500-lb buy went AWOL. It just broke; the part remaining on deck remained where it was, and other went overboard.

Food for thought---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKXwrOKRK1k


Look at the rear windshield after the chain snaps in the end.

" I don't think I mentioned but it broke both front and back windshields."

 

[slangel]

Garrett, physics is not your strong suit.

It doesn't mean you're wrong; as I stated, I haven't seen [edit: more than one] chain failures, so I may be talking out of my ass here. My reasoning for chain failure is that once the chain breaks, links quickly lose contact with each other - unlike steel cable.

I have seen a chain break on deck of the ship when a 2500-lb buy went AWOL. It just broke; the part remaining on deck remained where it was, and other went overboard.

I am only commenting as I have seen a chain failure and it was ugly. Chain went flying, broke through windows, and hit a girl in the face. Yes, she has a new face.

 

[garrett]

Food for thought---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKXwrOKRK1k


Look at the rear windshield after the chain snaps in the end.

" I don't think I mentioned but it broke both front and back windshields."

It was made worse due to the fact that they used it in a dynamic recovery. Static would have been less dramatic likely, but regardless chain is a horrible recovery tool. It can break very violently or not so much. Why bother taking the risk when far better options are usually/should be available.

 

[p m]

I am only commenting as I have seen a chain failure and it was ugly. Chain went flying, broke through windows, and hit a girl in the face. Yes, she has a new face.

That's enough for me to know.
FWIW, I never had a chain in my recovery stuff, and likely never will.

 

[slangel]

That's enough for me to know.
FWIW, I never had a chain in my recovery stuff, and likely never will.

Me either, and I had gotten out with straps and they refused. For me using a chain makes about as much sense as wheeling with your interior loaded with loose crap everywhere.

 

[garrett]

Me either, and I had gotten out with straps and they refused. For me using a chain makes about as much sense as wheeling with your interior loaded with loose crap everywhere.

I always tell my students - tie anything down you're not willing to drop on your face.

 

[slangel]

I always tell my students - tie anything down you're not willing to drop on your face.

Haha, that's what I have always told my kids. Abbi used to have her handheld dvd player (now mounted) and any time things got precarious she would strap it down and pronounce " I don't wanna get smacked in the face"

 

[ArmyRover]

Oh my god Bill!! I read all of it ( I know sad, kid napping, Von C snoring on the couch, and I needed entertainment while drinking my vodka), laughed my ass off. I double dare you have him build a cage for the 110.

His answer on how he would do the cage was all I needed to know he should not be building cages.

 

[fishEH]

I winch when needed. I let the situation dictate. 9 times out of 10 I'm trail leading. I'm also usually the most built rig being fully locked on 35's. We'll come up on some mud that I may walk right through. I'll pull off to the side and let others attempt. If they fail I'm there with the kinetic rope to tug them out with as little force as possible/as much as necessary. Winching 3-4 trucks through a little mud that poses no safety hazard would get very tedious.
At the beginning if the day I'll hook up my kinetic rope so it's ready to go.

I think the moral of the story is you need a bag of tricks because no one tool is best for all scenarios.

Oh, and chain blows.

 

[JAKD-UP]

True story brett

 

[seventyfive]

I always tell my students - tie me down and sit on my face.

you're kinky

 

[kennith]

I am only commenting as I have seen a chain failure and it was ugly. Chain went flying, broke through windows, and hit a girl in the face. Yes, she has a new face.

That's why I preach safety when dealing with others, and why I'm careful when out for fun. The last thing I need after all the nonsense I've survived, is to be killed doing something stupid in everyday life. I'm very, very picky about how recoveries will be performed if I'm taking part in them.

I've seen cable failures and their results, and I certainly don't want one to happen when I'm performing the recovery.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

This ought to tell you all you need to know about chain. Keep an eye on the deck as it snaps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPnzjGNEXFo

Chain has it's purpose. It's great for holding things down, lifting and dragging things out of the way. I do keep it in the DII at all times, but I don't use it for recovery. It's not a good option.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[DiscoPhoto]

^Terrifying