Because there are many people who faced the consequences of someone else breaking the law.
Some of them - half-willingly, some - unknowingly.
Bad day for Defender owners
- Thread starter fishEH
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Some of them - half-willingly, some - unknowingly.
Is it legal to import, buy, own, or sell a 2005 D110 with a Td5 in this country? Nope, especially not for $75k. I won't pretend to know shit about importing, but I wouldn't trust anyone trying to pull that shit off.
No, he imported a very similar one, but it was much nicer. IIRC it was about a $40k truck.
I'd just as soon pick up an old legal import, hit it with some cosmetic surgery, and install a better engine. The first runs may be a little worn at this point, but they are still perfectly serviceable.
There shouldn't be anything wrong with that. It's not as if parts are difficult to find; and it's not hard to give the exterior of a Defender a facelift.
A splash of contemporary paint and some modern trim will drag them right out of the dark ages. You've still got a nice car in the end.
Somebody would still manage to bitch, though.
Cheers,
Kennith
If that's all he was doing, than this entire fiasco is even more bullshit than I previously contended. Since it's now perfectly legal to import a busted-ass first generation model, there should be no problem.
Every Icon vehicle on the road is built precisely in this manner, and they certainly aren't alone.
Now, I can't know what he was or was not doing at that specific point in time. I can, however, suggest that there's absolutely no sense in breaking laws when stepping back a few years shouldn't raise any eyebrows.
Such an endeavor would, essentially, be pretty fucking stupid.
Cheers,
Kennith
ptschram
Well-known member
An awful lot of big name folks have been busted under Ship Of Theseus frauds.
When names like Boyd Coddington (who is still dead) and Jesse James get busted for such, it's pretty obvious one can't get away with some of what's going on.
When names like Boyd Coddington (who is still dead) and Jesse James get busted for such, it's pretty obvious one can't get away with some of what's going on.
He was doing several thing, doing 10' paint jobs on rust buckets, importing the non-conforming and POSSIBLE vin-swapped trucks and restorations. I'm not accusing him of doing the vin-swap, just that the 1985 td5 d90 on the galv frame that was seized in Phoenix is a typical example of what was being offered for purchase and I can safely say after seeing this truck up close and personal that it was not in any way, shape or a a 1985 with new paint or a restoration project
That's because you ran it through a snowbank and hit a tree--- and snapped your winch line...12 times!
.
It's no secret he was importing some junk trucks. Just search Dweb for those threads.... But if he were taking those junk trucks, repairing them with new(ish) parts, putting them on a galvi frame and installing a TD5, I really don't see the problem.
I could be wrong but from what I understand TD5's were never approved by the Feds for use in the US. I wonder if that's a part of this picture? I also wonder if they're going to go after people who have TD5's in their Rovers? Someone please enlighten me that knows more.
I'm withya if that's what he did and I'm sure several people had thier legit trucks seized…
BUT, and I can speak about this truck with confidence as I crawled over, under, around and thru it and having done 3 restorations, this truck was not a re-build in any way.
The lack of vin stamped on the frame being the biggest "CLUE"
BUT, and I can speak about this truck with confidence as I crawled over, under, around and thru it and having done 3 restorations, this truck was not a re-build in any way.
The lack of vin stamped on the frame being the biggest "CLUE"
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Right now it's limited to vehicles connected to DR A dealership in NC (there were pic's of one of the warrants showing this posted at one point). Understand vehicles are imported everyday into the US. Some are legit and conforming, some aren't, those that aren't are either seized or detained. Then the process begins to prove their viability to pass into the US. Not rocket science, not hard to do, not illegal, the vehicle just needs to be original as dictated by the HS-7 and EPA forms. .
You also can ship really any part over that you want, engine, trans or whatever, it doesn't become sketchy until you install said part into a vehicle. 200/300 tdi's, TD5's TDCI's were never EPA type accepted engines, plain and simple, but with 200tdi's, and soon 300tdi'd, they fall under the 21 year exclusion.
On the "Ship Of Theseus" theory: if I were to swap my rusty frame on my NAS 1990 Range Rover with a new frame from England, who would it have to be checked with since it no longer has a VIN number on it? If I had to replace the block with one from Chad or bought a new one from BP, it wouldn't have a matching vin, if any at all.
Now that I'm down two of the OEM VIN plates, would my truck pass a level 3 inspection at the DMV if there were questions about it's heritage?
As it turns out, the last Pennsylvania title had a typo in the VIN. It came to Az with me and the VIN on the PA title was entered into the AZ system (which didn't throw a checksum error, btw). It wasn't until two years later at an emissions check that someone caught it. Went down to DMV, I think they only did a Level 2 inspection, corrected the title and issued a new registration card and I was on my way. I think he only looked at the door plate and the dash plate. I don't remember him crawling all through the truck for info.
Since my truck was imported by LRNA through Houston, I'd feel more confident on having proper background records to verify the truck. But since Frank imported his own truck, how many parts could he swap with newer model or new parts before his truck is in the gray area?
Now that I'm down two of the OEM VIN plates, would my truck pass a level 3 inspection at the DMV if there were questions about it's heritage?
As it turns out, the last Pennsylvania title had a typo in the VIN. It came to Az with me and the VIN on the PA title was entered into the AZ system (which didn't throw a checksum error, btw). It wasn't until two years later at an emissions check that someone caught it. Went down to DMV, I think they only did a Level 2 inspection, corrected the title and issued a new registration card and I was on my way. I think he only looked at the door plate and the dash plate. I don't remember him crawling all through the truck for info.
Since my truck was imported by LRNA through Houston, I'd feel more confident on having proper background records to verify the truck. But since Frank imported his own truck, how many parts could he swap with newer model or new parts before his truck is in the gray area?
I'm pretty sure each state has different rules about VIN tampering. I know sometimes people cut the old VIN out and weld it to the new frame. My NAS D90 has a galvanized chassis, but no VIN stamp.
I've always understood the title belongs to the frame. In other words, you could put a Lamborghini body on a RRC frame and it's still a RRC.
I've seen two different D110s in Seattle over the past couple years that had TD5 decals and Washington plates. Based on their age, condition, and paint colors they were clearly not NAS. No idea how they got here (well, obviously they were driven or shipped- unclear about the legal status). I wonder where those Defenders are at this moment.
Not arguing, but do you have a source for this?
I didn't think the US had a system for determining the year of a vehicle like (I think) the UK does.