Cindy Sheehan?

[syoung]

SYOUNG, though I usually have no disagreement in what you say, and maybe I am taking this wrong, but...

It seems like you are implying this guy should have stayed out of this particular foray...c'mon, this country is founded on brave young men who have NOT stayed out of the fight. It took people like this found our country, and has taken people like this to make our country a place worth living in. I hope you were not making light of ths young man's contribution, especially as you have stated you were former military yourself. Whether you are a mechanic, cook, etc, all have a duty to their comrades to help is they can or are able. This guy sounds like a medal recipient to me, going above and beyond his normal military role to try to make a difference to his comrades.

Well, that wasn't *really* the way I meant it to come across- but there are times when people need to know when to stick with their intended purpose. If he didn't have the appropriate training to go on a raid, he would be more useful (and alive) as a mechanic. It's a valiant thing to throw yourself in danger's way sometimes, and other times it's foolish. I don't know enought about his particular scenario to know which. Not everyone willing to go in danger's way should be a medal recipient. I take a more skeptical view usually until something compelling and unusual convinces me to lighten up. It seems lately that the military throws a medal at anything that moves.

 

[MarkP]

Paging Cindy "America isn't worth dying for,", It's the Joooz", Sheehan.

Feels like a continuation of WWII with a brief pause for the Cold (really, Hot) War.

Al Qaeda chiefs reveal world domination design
The Age.Com au ^ | August 24, 2005 | Allan Hall

THE al-Qaeda master plan to take over the world and turn it into an Islamic state has been revealed for the first time.

For a new book, Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein interviewed top lieutenants of the terrorist network, including the mastermind of many atrocities in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Al-Zarqawi ? al-Qaeda's Second Generation is published only in Arabic, but could be translated into English.

Hussein says al-Qaeda views its struggle as a long-term war with seven distinct phases.

Phase one is the "awakening" in the consciousness of Muslims worldwide following the September 11, 2001, suicide attacks. The aim of the attacks was to provoke the US into declaring war on the Islamic world and thereby mobilising the radicals.

Phase two is "Opening Eyes", the period we are now in and which should last until 2006. Hussein says the terrorists hope to make the "Western conspiracy" aware of the "Islamic community" as al-Qaeda continues to mould its secret battalions ready for battle.

Phase three, "Arising and Standing Up", should last from 2007 to 2010, with increasingly frequent attacks against secular Turkey and arch-enemy Israel.

Phase four, between 2010 and 2013, will see the downfall of hated Arab regimes, including Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Oil suppliers will be attacked and the US economy will be targeted using cyber terrorism.

Phase five will be the point at which an Islamic state, or caliphate, can be declared ? between 2013 and 2016.

Phase six, from 2016 on, will be a period of "total confrontation". As soon as the caliphate has been declared, the "Islamic army" will instigate the "fight between the believers and the non-believers" that has so often been predicted by al-Qaeda's leader, Osama bin Laden.

Phase seven, the final stage, is described as "definitive victory".

Hussein writes that in the terrorists' eyes, because the rest of the world will be so beaten down by the "One-and-a-half billion Muslims", the caliphate will undoubtedly succeed. This phase should be completed by 2020, although the war should not last longer than two years.

 

[montanablur]

Scary to think it's planned out that well.

Hey Mark could you cut and paste our (USA's) plan?

 

[MarkP]

Scary to think it's planned out that well.

Hitler also had plans. Great Britian, United States, Australia and others didn't buy into it.

Hey Mark could you cut and paste our (USA's) plan?

Are you suggesting Western civilization develop a plan to fight a religious war? I hope not, but it appears to be the end game of the Islamic radicals. Phase II may get them more attention than they want.

 

[montanablur]

Well I would hope that we have a plan...

Religous war or not we need a plan.

Iraq right now shows us what we get when we don't have a plan.

 

[MarkP]

Iraq right now shows us what we get when we don't have a plan.

Mmmm .... I disagree. If you look ONLY at Iraq you miss the big picture.
- Iraq's major political forces are now having to deal with each other over the table. The biggest enemy of radical Islam is freedom, not Western civilization.
- Iran is now surrounded by Western forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and various 'stans.
- Syria has a new neighbor.
- Lebanon is kicking the Syrians out.
- The Palestinian terrorist no longer have a rich uncle (Saddamm), although the UN is doing a good job as a substitute by funneling money to terrorist.
- Israel is pulling out of Gaza.
- As a secondary effect of the Iraq war the nuclear black market that involved Libya is now exposed .
- North Korea sure is quiet. Wonder why? Some people learn by watching a friend get their ass kicked.
- UN oil-for-food corruption, which should be called oil-for-terrorism money, is now exposed and those in the UN are running for cover.
- Pakistan, a relationship that still needs close management, with several Saudi financed schools can no longer sit on the sidelines and hope to not be noticed.
- The UN credibility is exactly where it should be, in the toilet.
- The EU is exposed for what it always was, a planned tool of old Europe.

I suspect there was a great deal of geo-political thought that went into the Iraq decision. It wasn't just Iraq. Prior to September 11th Western civilization was viewed as a paper tiger that would do nothing more than launch a few cruise missles for show. What plan did the 90's have? Rearrange the chairs on a sinking Middle East deck? Keep the status quo so as to not rock the home financial markets? Hey, it was the economic bubble of the 90's, everybody party! Except that Islamic radicals had already declared war. Sometimes you have to use that big stick if you expect respect. That is what Arab's respect. Some plans take longer than the mainstream media's soundbite.

 

[montanablur]

Mmmm .... I disagree. If you look ONLY at Iraq you miss the big picture.

Well I was talking about Iraq.

- Iraq's major political forces are now having to deal with each other over the table. The biggest enemy of radical Islam is freedom, not Western civilization.
- Iran is now surrounded by Western forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and various 'stans.
- Syria has a new neighbor.
- Lebanon is kicking the Syrians out.
- The Palestinian terrorist no longer have a rich uncle (Saddamm), although the UN is doing a good job as a substitute by funneling money to terrorist.
- Israel is pulling out of Gaza.
- As a secondary effect of the Iraq war the nuclear black market that involved Libya is now exposed .
- North Korea sure is quiet. Wonder why? Some people learn by watching a friend get their ass kicked.
- UN oil-for-food corruption, which should be called oil-for-terrorism money, is now exposed and those in the UN are running for cover.
- Pakistan, a relationship that still needs close management, with several Saudi financed schools can no longer sit on the sidelines and hope to not be noticed.
- The UN credibility is exactly where it should be, in the toilet.
- The EU is exposed for what it always was, a planned tool of old Europe.

All valid points. But what is our plan? Novus Ordo Seclorum?

I suspect there was a great deal of geo-political thought that went into the Iraq decision. It wasn't just Iraq. Prior to September 11th Western civilization was viewed as a paper tiger that would do nothing more than launch a few cruise missles for show. What plan did the 90's have? Rearrange the chairs on a sinking Middle East deck? Keep the status quo so as to not rock the home financial markets? Hey, it was the economic bubble of the 90's, everybody party! Except that Islamic radicals had already declared war. Sometimes you have to use that big stick if you expect respect. That is what Arab's respect. Some plans take longer than the mainstream media's soundbite.

All good points as well. But still, what is our plan? That is what I'm unclear of... I know you are well educated and will say something better than "Kick their ass! America! Fuck Yeah!" As much shit as I give you for being Mr. Cut-n-Paste you are well informed.

 

[Blue]

Cindy Sheehan?

is a moron.

 

[montanablur]

Blue?

Where have you been?

 

[syoung]

There is a basic flaw in overplanning when dealing with an adversary, based on Kreitman's Conjecture.

One can plan every detail of each step of a plan and set them in stone, although the outcome cannot be accurately predicted or set in stone itself.
One can predict and set in stone the outcome of a plan, although the details of each step cannot be set in stone themselves.

One has to be flexible to face something like a whacko religious war and really the most accurate response is- F yeah, kill 'em all, GO AMERICA!

 

[garrett]

Blue?

Where have you been?

his name is not Blue.......as Rob has figured out he is Scott Peterson. poor bastard.

i believe this to be true.

 

[kennith]

Mark P,

Well said!

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[SmellyAlbatross]

.... "Kick their ass! America! Fuck Yeah!" .....

We do have a plan...he is an actor...the finest damned actor I have ever known...

 

[MarkP]

All good points as well. But still, what is our plan? That is what I'm unclear of... I know you are well educated and will say something better than "Kick their ass! America! Fuck Yeah!" As much shit as I give you for being Mr. Cut-n-Paste you are well informed.

Steve has a good perspective on planning. What's that saying about "The best plans ....."

As far as well informed, I read a lot. I don't watch the MSM news anymore. Haven't for many years. The MSM has such an agenda that they miss the most important aspects of events and interviews.

For a good analysis of history and events, perspectives you will not see discussed on the MSM news, go to
The Belmont Club

 

[antichrist]

snip
The fallen heroes, until now, have enjoyed virtually no individuality. They have been treated as a monolith, a mere number.

He needs to listen to NPR. Every week they spend 10 or 15 minutes foucusing on a single soldier's life, talking to family, friends, collegues. Helping to put faces on those who have died. They do it respectfully, no good/bad judgements about anything, just letting you get to know them in a small way.

snip
Today, those who defend our freedom every day do so as volunteers with a clear and certain purpose.
snip

I really wish people would stop this mantra. Yes, they joined up as volunteers, but a large number of the soldiers (national guard) there did not volunteer to go and have no desire to be there. Yes, maybe they needed to be there initially for the numbers, but this has been going on, and needs to go on long enough to have trained and equiped regular forces to replace them.

One other comment I want to make about promoting "freedom" in Iraq. In spite of how evil Saddam was, the fact is that Iraq, prior to the 1st gulf war had one of, not the highest, literacy rate in the middle east. Women also were well educated and help "upscale" jobs. The current proposed constitution, last I saw, takes that all away from them and puts women back to their status similar to Afghanistan under the Taliban. Freedom? As typical, we go into another country with a half-assed irrational plan, fuck it over, and then leave. I really hope those in power don't do that again, but I have little hope.

 

[syoung]

Yeah, Tom- just like we fucked over Japan in WWII?

Quick reminder- when you 'volunteer' to join the military, you don't get to pick and choose the assignments. All those wankers that complain because they didn't want to leave their cushy job but were cashing those reserve duty checks all along can either kiss America's ass or swallow a bullet as far as I'm concerned. Their desire to be there, or anywhere, doesn't mean sh*t. I didn't really wanna go there either and I didn't want to get shot at either... tough S. Either you do a good job for your country or if you don't "feel it" you do a good job because you are paid to do it. If you don't have pride in your job, do it for your family... if you lack that- do yourself with a noose.

 

[antichrist]

Steve, I didn't mean we always do it. There are plenty of examples of where we didn't. But there are plenty were we have as well. Either militarily or otherwise.

I'm not saying that the National Guard shouldn't ever have been there. But I don't think, and obviously this is just my opinion, that the Guard shouldn't be treated as regular forces as far as long term deployment. Like I said, there's been time for regular forces buildup, it's just the choice was made to not do that. Add that to the fact they aren't getting equal treatment upon return, like for medical care and so on, and it's even more wrong.

 

[syoung]

National Guard and Reserves are only part time UNTIL ACTIVATED. Upon activation, they are full-time. I don't see anything confusing about that. They mooched off the system for years without having to do anything, now it's time to pay it back. Most of the time, they are in the rear with the gear doing blah work while the better trained and more effective professional 'regulars' go out and do the technical stuff.

 

[Jake]

National Guard and Reserves are only part time UNTIL ACTIVATED. Upon activation, they are full-time. I don't see anything confusing about that. They mooched off the system for years without having to do anything, now it's time to pay it back. Most of the time, they are in the rear with the gear doing blah work while the better trained and more effective professional 'regulars' go out and do the technical stuff.

Yes they are full-time when activated. During WWII, there were quite a few NG Infantry Divisions doing the fighting. Your assessment is partially correct; after the realignment of reserve forces in the 80's, most combat support and service support missions went to the USAR. Most combat arms missions went to the NG. 256 INF BDE from Lousiana is out in AO doing combat missions, as is the 39th RCT from the Texas Guard. Not all support work is "blah work" that keeps your ass safe; lots of transportation units are in the reserves and they ply the same roads as the combat arms guys and deal with the same threat of IED attack. Actually, if I were an insurgent, I would try to blow up as many fuel tankers and cargo trucks as possible. In the Army, almost ALL the Civil Affairs and Psyop units are reserves: most get called to deploy more than active component guys due to the nature of their mission.

 

[RoverChic]

National Guard and Reserves are only part time UNTIL ACTIVATED. Upon activation, they are full-time. I don't see anything confusing about that. They mooched off the system for years without having to do anything, now it's time to pay it back. Most of the time, they are in the rear with the gear doing blah work while the better trained and more effective professional 'regulars' go out and do the technical stuff.

Steve- They do not mooch. You do not get ANY TRICARE BENEFITS when off of duty. End of story. My sister's fiancee is Army Reserve. He only receives any type of TRICARE benefit if ON DUTY and injured. He serves One weekend a month @ 10.73 per hour for a duration of the whole weekend (like a total of 16 hours maybe). He also pays his own gas to and from the Army Base Ft. Sill. (which happens to be close to 100 miles from his place of residence). Granted when he went to boot camp they paid him a whole $550 a month for 8 weeks of training. 500 does not even cover my gas in one month let alone a car payment. He was also called up to go to Iraq for two months and received less than half of what a full time Army Enlisted E-5 would have received. Granted he does get the benefit of the Tax Free shopping on Base, and half of half of the GI Bill. This might be different from the National Guard vs. Army Reserve.

Let me add this as well. I know at the University of Oklahoma if you are National Guard you receive a Tuition Waiver for up to 18 hours per semester. This is for Tuition only and covers none of the additional fee(s) and let me tell you, those 'fees' were actually more than the $100 per hour rate for tuition. At one point he had the option to purcahse TRICARE for like $85 a month, but opted out as he said that he still would have to drive to the local base to seek medical assistance if needed.