Concealed Carry Reciprocity

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
For you permit holders out there, it looks like this bill is making it's way through congress. Of course you'll have states like CA, Maryland and others that will fight this. It gets old having to lookup the latest reciprocity list every time you hit the road on a trip. I googled and the daily caller was the only site with an article, so far. Sorry to my liberal permit holders out there. :)

Not holding breath, could be years.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/27/concealed-carry-bill-moves-forward-in-congress/
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
I thought you were conservative? So much for states rights, eh? Limiting Congresses powers to those defined in the Constitution?

While I love living in TN for their liberal gun laws, I'm not so sure other states (which is what bills passed by Congress is: the will of the majority of the states) should be dictating the laws in other states. Congress has the power to enact laws governing interstate commerce. I'm not clear how this fits.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
I thought you were conservative? So much for states rights, eh? Limiting Congresses powers to those defined in the Constitution?

While I love living in TN for their liberal gun laws, I'm not so sure other states (which is what bills passed by Congress is: the will of the majority of the states) should be dictating the laws in other states. Congress has the power to enact laws governing interstate commerce. I'm not clear how this fits.

I'm a states rights guy and would hope the law would encourage states to work together better to adhere to each others CCP laws. If we had 40 out of the 50 states all with reciprocity I'd be fine with that. Forcing states to adhere will not work out in the long run IMO.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
I honestly don't care all that much about concealed carry-but it is damn frustrating that the hearing protection act got caught up in what happened in Vegas....that is something my liberal ass would have been very happy to see come to fruition.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
I honestly don't care all that much about concealed carry-but it is damn frustrating that the hearing protection act got caught up in what happened in Vegas....that is something my liberal ass would have been very happy to see come to fruition.

I'd buy a suppressor for the hell of it but I hear you must jump through hoops with the FBI and what-not. It's just not that important to me right now.

Interesting fact:

ATF says there are right under 100K registered in the US now. With 500 billion, trillions(?) of rounds out there floating around that's not a lot of suppressors.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,069
879
AZ
I thought you were conservative? So much for states rights, eh? Limiting Congresses powers to those defined in the Constitution?

Dweb.....bringing out the little bitch in everybody.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
I'd buy a suppressor for the hell of it but I hear you must jump through hoops with the FBI and what-not. It's just not that important to me right now.

Interesting fact:

ATF says there are right under 100K registered in the US now. With 500 billion, trillions(?) of rounds out there floating around that's not a lot of suppressors.

They remain an NFA (National Firearms Act) item; so you buy a tax stamp for them via the ATF; much like short barreled rifles (SBR), short barreled shotguns (SBS), Any Other Weapon (AOW) or a fully automatic weapon.

Shooting with a suppressor makes a lot of sense, once you've done it-and is one of the reasons why other countries with far more restrictive gun laws actually promote their use vice inhibit it severely through protracted waiting periods and onerous regulations.

I'd happily buy them for most of my weapons but given lifestyle don't want to deal with the hassle..just yet. Were they regulated how firearms generally are (i.e. what was in the HPA) that would make it far easier for a discerning shooter to get one.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Shooting with a suppressor makes a lot of sense, once you've done it-and is one of the reasons why other countries with far more restrictive gun laws actually promote their use vice inhibit it severely through protracted waiting periods and onerous regulations.

Never shot with a suppressor Ray. Other than no ear protection and less recoil not sure of the advantages. I generally consider a suppressor is used to cover something up, people that cover up are more often than not committing crimes. What's your take?
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
I'm a states rights guy and would hope the law would encourage states to work together better to adhere to each others CCP laws. If we had 40 out of the 50 states all with reciprocity I'd be fine with that. Forcing states to adhere will not work out in the long run IMO.
Pretty hard to be "a states rights guy," when you support a bill that DICTATES that there will be reciprocity to those states that don't want it.

No law that proscribes something will be done, encourages two groups to work together. The whole point of the bill is to force states without CC to have it. Do you even read what you write?

You either support states rights which means each state gets to decide what is best for itself, or you don't - in which case Washington gets to decide for you.

Hilarious how you (and other conservatives) are all for states rights when it comes to Obamacare, Medicaid, education policy, BLM, etc., but when it comes to some law you want - fuck those liberal states and what they want.


Dweb.....bringing out the little hypocrite in everybody.

FIFY
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
They remain an NFA (National Firearms Act) item; so you buy a tax stamp for them via the ATF; much like short barreled rifles (SBR), short barreled shotguns (SBS), Any Other Weapon (AOW) or a fully automatic weapon.

Shooting with a suppressor makes a lot of sense, once you've done it-and is one of the reasons why other countries with far more restrictive gun laws actually promote their use vice inhibit it severely through protracted waiting periods and onerous regulations.

I'd happily buy them for most of my weapons but given lifestyle don't want to deal with the hassle..just yet. Were they regulated how firearms generally are (i.e. what was in the HPA) that would make it far easier for a discerning shooter to get one.

One way to minimize the "hassle" is to set up a trust and get the stamps through that. It also allows people in the trust (aka, your family) to posses the NFA items if you loan it to them/die.

It's still a hassle - you have to set up the trust, but for multiple items, it's supposed to simplify things for subsequent purchases. (I don't have one, but had a friend in TX who bought a couple full-autos and suppressors. That was what he did based on legal advice. YMMV)
 

AbnMike

Well-known member
Apr 6, 2016
1,218
117
Western Slope, CO
Any law regulating the carrying of firearms is unconstitutional the way the 2A is written, so the State's rights argument is moot.

Infringement: the act of limiting or undermining something.

"shall not be infringed"
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
Pretty hard to be "a states rights guy," when you support a bill that DICTATES that there will be reciprocity to those states that don't want it.

No law that proscribes something will be done, encourages two groups to work together. The whole point of the bill is to force states without CC to have it. Do you even read what you write?

You either support states rights which means each state gets to decide what is best for itself, or you don't - in which case Washington gets to decide for you.

Hilarious how you (and other conservatives) are all for states rights when it comes to Obamacare, Medicaid, education policy, BLM, etc., but when it comes to some law you want - fuck those liberal states and what they want.




FIFY

Scott, please read back and tell me where I said I supported the current bill. Why is it I always feel like I'm playing cards with my brothers kids when talking to you?

I support the premise, more reciprocity. How it's done is up to the lawmakers.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
Never shot with a suppressor Ray. Other than no ear protection and less recoil not sure of the advantages. I generally consider a suppressor is used to cover something up, people that cover up are more often than not committing crimes. What's your take?

Brian-
The benefits start with what you note but are worth highlighting further-reduced need for hearing protection in particular. This has a direct impact on accuracy (as an example, take a shooter to a range and have them shoot with just foam earplugs, then with a nice peltor, and then with both-and see what is more accurate. More times than not the less acoustic signature, the more accurate you are). It also reduces noise pollution, i.e. on a Sun afternoon I could happily plink away with a .22 and nobody on neighboring property would ever know it is happening. There are, of course, benefits associated with signature reduction for hunters too.

The idea that a suppressor turns a weapon into something that nobody would hear though is a misnomer, unless we're talking shooting a bolt action, subsonic, round and even then you'd have a signature.

The amount of crime conducted with suppressors is negligible and changing the law would not likely change that, mostly because of simple economics. A decent suppressor costs $$$, when most gun owners don't even seem to ascribe to the reality that you should be willing to spend as much on the optic as the weapon itself I can't see a rash of crimes committed by folks with $1k worth of long gun + >$600 worth of suppressor (or $500 worth of pistol and at least the equivalent in suppressor costs) (both estimates used are anecdotal to illustrate the point).

Most firearm related crimes are committed with handguns, and most of those handguns are cheap because that's what the criminals can afford.

Apologies for thread tangent!
r-
Ray
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Scott, please read back and tell me where I said I supported the current bill. Why is it I always feel like I'm playing cards with my brothers kids when talking to you?

I support the premise, more reciprocity. How it's done is up to the lawmakers.

So you don't support it?
For you permit holders out there, it looks like this bill is making it's way through congress. Of course you'll have states like CA, Maryland and others that will fight this. It gets old having to lookup the latest reciprocity list every time you hit the road on a trip. I googled and the daily caller was the only site with an article, so far. Sorry to my liberal permit holders out there. :)

Not holding breath, could be years.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/27/concealed-carry-bill-moves-forward-in-congress/

Sure seems like you like the bill.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
One way to minimize the "hassle" is to set up a trust and get the stamps through that. It also allows people in the trust (aka, your family) to posses the NFA items if you loan it to them/die.

It's still a hassle - you have to set up the trust, but for multiple items, it's supposed to simplify things for subsequent purchases. (I don't have one, but had a friend in TX who bought a couple full-autos and suppressors. That was what he did based on legal advice. YMMV)

Trust is on my list, I had been biding time after getting back to CONUS hoping for HPA but alas that seems gone. Now with the 41F changes it may not be quite as useful, but still worth doing for a variety of reasons. (https://silencerco.com/blog/2016/02/11/buying-a-silencer-6-things-you-need-to-know-about-atf-41f/)
 

AbnMike

Well-known member
Apr 6, 2016
1,218
117
Western Slope, CO
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court doesn't really agree...

U.S. top court spurns challenge to Maryland assault weapons ban

Of course they don't. But the language is quite clear. Future Courts may agree, some may disagree further.

the language, however, doesn't change.

Point being: if people want to regulate weapons but still hold the Constitution up to be a shining example of governance, they should use the process to appropriately amend it, rather than hemming and hawing and shitting all over it.

it's the same as if Congress passed a law regulating speech on the Internet because a court doesn't agree that "speech" is anything but talking and the internet doesn't count.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Point being: if people want to regulate weapons but still hold the Constitution up to be a shining example of governance, they should use the process to appropriately amend it, rather than hemming and hawing and shitting all over it.
Couldn't agree more.

In fact, I tell all my anti-gun friends/relatives the exact same thing. Don't like it? Well, just change the Constitution and I'll get on board.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
Trust is on my list, I had been biding time after getting back to CONUS hoping for HPA but alas that seems gone. Now with the 41F changes it may not be quite as useful, but still worth doing for a variety of reasons. (https://silencerco.com/blog/2016/02/11/buying-a-silencer-6-things-you-need-to-know-about-atf-41f/)

I've only got an interest in getting a suppressor for my AR - it's a LWRC with adjustable gas block. I'd really like to put one on just for giggles. And because I can...

I live in TN, so for the one item just going the normal route is probably the easiest. But I do like the trust idea so that it could be passed along to my kids with minimal hassle. Of course I haven't gotten one, just because of the hassle of getting the Stamp....