D1 front drive shaft replacement with a D2 double-cardan joint driveshaft?

[DiscoClay]

Have any of you installed the D2 double-cardan front propshaft (aka: driveshaft, for the search engine) into a D1?


I am replacing the front shaft and I picked up a new double-cardan for cheap.. I figured with the ~2" lift and the ~32" tires it might smooth the front end out a smidge. I know its a way bigger deal with greater than 3 inches of lift; my other D1 had the double-cardan already on it when I bought it..

My question is: do i have to convert anything? They have the same wheelbase, and the same transfercase (aka: transfer-box).. thought I seem to recall the D2 not having the center lock option (on the shifter only.. I think it still has the internal hardware?).

This legacy d-90.com thread has a great writeup but it is mainly for the rear shaft and focused on the d90:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120501171418/http://www.d-90.com/tech/cv1.html

I don't know off the top if the D90/D110 front shaft is the same length as the D1.

 

[DiscoClay]

Okay, so.. I was spelling it cardigan and thus I didn't see the myriad of threads on the topic; this one in particular is fairly recent: https://discoweb.org/index.php?threads/double-cardan-or-wide-angle.101102

I will update this one since I already started it. :-/

My understanding from the other thread is that the D2 flange (on the LT230) is different (the bolt pattern being more rectangular than square). Luckily they share U-joints, so I am hoping to just swap my original flange onto the new D2 shaft. If anyone knows better, please guide me onto the right path, Obi-wan (preferably, before I make the attempt)!

 

[mbrummal]

The u-joints are the same but the flange is different - it has to support the centering ball for the double cardan joint.

If you want to use the stock D2 driveshaft, you'll have to swap a D2 transfer case output flange onto your transfer case.

 

[kris812]

OP please read through this post I made.. Might help you out a little!

I almost did the same and swapped to a D2 output and D2 shaft. Went with Tom woods and took them 2 try's to get me a shaft. The first one had the pilot too long and flanges never met on T case.

Also most my vib issues was probably the rear flex. Also the reason for a DC shaft is mismatched angles. Which your rear suffers from now as well if lifted. I posted some spacers to fix this as well once UJ converted in the rear.

Front output Shaft, Bearing, Flange play, new Driveshafts, axle angles.

So I heard some noise and viberations on Deceleration at 75 mph coming from the front end. Got home and I shaked the drive shafts to find the 'front output' kinda loose like the flange was "wobbling". So upon lots of reading on here I was under the impression the front output bearing was bad...

discoweb.org

 

[DiscoClay]

Thanks Kris, as mentioned above.. I was spelling it cardigan in the search..so I didn't see a bunch of the posts prior to creating this one Mea Culpa

 

[DiscoClay]

The u-joints are the same but the flange is different - it has to support the centering ball for the double cardan joint.

If you want to use the stock D2 driveshaft, you'll have to swap a D2 transfer case output flange onto your transfer case.

Oh, I thought the DC was on the forward end of the shaft.. :-/ Damnit.

So, to clarify the options to install the Double-Cardan D2 FRONT drive shaft (aka: propellor shaft):

• It is not possible to swap the D1 rear flange (propshaft to transfer case) into the D2 prop shaft because the Cardan has a ball pivot that attaches to the D2 flange.
• Is it possible to mount the D2 shaft in reverse? Thus enabling the flange swap? This of course means the D2 "rear" flange is now mounted to the front axle pinion..IF it is compatible.
• Is it possible to modify the D1 flange to fit the D2 Cardan ball element? If not, why not? What mods are necessary?
• Is it possible to modify the D2 flange to fit the D1 transfer case flange? If not, why not? What mods are necessary?
• Is it possible to mount the D2 transfer case flange on the D1 transfer case? If not, why not? What mods are necessary?
• Other options?

Swapping this one out:

Genuine Propshaft Front For Land Rover Discovery 1 1989 - 1998 (from Fa393361 To Wa799999) Classic (l318) | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts

parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com

To replace it with this one:

Genuine Propshaft Front For Land Rover Discovery 2 1998 - 2004 Classic (l318) | Jaguar Land Rover Classic Parts

parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com

 

[mbrummal]

No need to modify any parts. Get a D2 transfer case front output flange and bolt it onto your D1 transfer case. You should probably replace the seal at the same time. Then you can bolt in a D2 driveshaft.

I have a Tom Wood's front driveshaft and would recommend it over a stock or rebuilt stock driveshaft.

 

[terryjm1]

I have a 3 inch lift on one of my D1s. I swapped in a DC front driveshaft sourced from Discostew of unknown origin. I think it is a GBR from what I can gather from internet research. It definitely solved my problem in the front. A previous owner had already removed the rotoflex on the rear and replaced the driveshaft. I still have a deceleration “whine” but have just gotten accustomed to it. 4000 miles and aside from the ”whine” I don’t notice any vibration. This one also has castor correction front radius arms. I’m going to try putting some spacers on the rear trailing arms to push the driveshaft back and see if that helps. I’m going to use the metal plates in the old trailing arm mounts as spacers when I figure out how to separate them from the dried out rubber.

I also have another 96 D1 that I swapped in a rear driveshaft to eliminate the rotoflex for which I installed new u-joints. It was sourced from Will Tillery so I imagine it is a RRC driveshaft, It has zero vibration or “whine” noise. It also has no lift. i will someday put a 2 inch lift on it and see what happens. The stock springs, even at 155,000 miles seems quite good. So, I’m hesitant to fix what isn’t broken, it may be quite some time before I do the lift. It drives very nicely.This one also has a new steering gearbox. It steers amazingly well and tight.

I have a 98 D1 that I installed a 2 inch lift on that already had the rotoflex removed. It has a barely perceptible deceleration vibration above 55 mph.

 

[DiscoClay]

"I’m hesitant to fix what isn’t broken"

Aka: the long game strategy in the Everwar against the demons of The Lucas.

Aaaaaaaahhhhmmmmeeeeeennnn

:-D

 

[kris812]

I have a 3 inch lift on one of my D1s. I swapped in a DC front driveshaft sourced from Discostew of unknown origin. I think it is a GBR from what I can gather from internet research. It definitely solved my problem in the front. A previous owner had already removed the rotoflex on the rear and replaced the driveshaft. I still have a deceleration “whine” but have just gotten accustomed to it. 4000 miles and aside from the ”whine” I don’t notice any vibration. This one also has castor correction front radius arms. I’m going to try putting some spacers on the rear trailing arms to push the driveshaft back and see if that helps. I’m going to use the metal plates in the old trailing arm mounts as spacers when I figure out how to separate them from the dried out rubber.

I also have another 96 D1 that I swapped in a rear driveshaft to eliminate the rotoflex for which I installed new u-joints. It was sourced from Will Tillery so I imagine it is a RRC driveshaft, It has zero vibration or “whine” noise. It also has no lift. i will someday put a 2 inch lift on it and see what happens. The stock springs, even at 155,000 miles seems quite good. So, I’m hesitant to fix what isn’t broken, it may be quite some time before I do the lift. It drives very nicely.This one also has a new steering gearbox. It steers amazingly well and tight.

I have a 98 D1 that I installed a 2 inch lift on that already had the rotoflex removed. It has a barely perceptible deceleration vibration above 55 mph.

Hey Terry, toss these in there! They FIT perfectly! And a LOT cheaper than the defender part # KVX000010 that's basically the same thing. I TOO was going to burn up my old mounts for the flanges, decided to keep em as spares incase the poly bites the dust on me.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P4Z5QT2

Also, could try moving your panhard bar to line up the front DS, helped remove all the decel whining for me.. But I did move it a couple times to find a sweet spot per say; then centered the wheel and called it a day!

 

[1of40]

I have a GBR DC shaft for a D90 that will fit the D1. It has some miles on it but it is still in good working order. $200 + shipping.

 

[terryjm1]

I have a GBR DC shaft for a D90 that will fit the D1. It has some miles on it but it is still in good working order. $200 + shipping.

I do not want to purchase yours but would like to confirm what I have is a GBR. Would you mind posting a photo?

 

[roverchef]

I have a 3 inch lift on one of my D1s. I swapped in a DC front driveshaft sourced from Discostew of unknown origin. I think it is a GBR from what I can gather from internet research. It definitely solved my problem in the front. A previous owner had already removed the rotoflex on the rear and replaced the driveshaft. I still have a deceleration “whine” but have just gotten accustomed to it. 4000 miles and aside from the ”whine” I don’t notice any vibration. This one also has castor correction front radius arms. I’m going to try putting some spacers on the rear trailing arms to push the driveshaft back and see if that helps. I’m going to use the metal plates in the old trailing arm mounts as spacers when I figure out how to separate them from the dried out rubber.

I also have another 96 D1 that I swapped in a rear driveshaft to eliminate the rotoflex for which I installed new u-joints. It was sourced from Will Tillery so I imagine it is a RRC driveshaft, It has zero vibration or “whine” noise. It also has no lift. i will someday put a 2 inch lift on it and see what happens. The stock springs, even at 155,000 miles seems quite good. So, I’m hesitant to fix what isn’t broken, it may be quite some time before I do the lift. It drives very nicely.This one also has a new steering gearbox. It steers amazingly well and tight.

I have a 98 D1 that I installed a 2 inch lift on that already had the rotoflex removed. It has a barely perceptible deceleration vibration above 55 mph.

Drop an angle finder on your rear DS and add shims to the TA's until you get factory spec.
The whine should go away if you haven't torn into the pinion bearing too much yet.

 

[terryjm1]

Hey Terry, toss these in there! They FIT perfectly! And a LOT cheaper than the defender part # KVX000010 that's basically the same thing. I TOO was going to burn up my old mounts for the flanges, decided to keep em as spares incase the poly bites the dust on me.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P4Z5QT2

Also, could try moving your panhard bar to line up the front DS, helped remove all the decel whining for me.. But I did move it a couple times to find a sweet spot per se; then centered the wheel and called it a day!

“I TOO was going to burn up my old mounts for the flanges, decided to keep em as spares incase the poly bites the dust on me.”

The flange on the old mounts won’t work. The center hole is too small. I didn’t burn off the rubber but instead pushed the rubber part through on a press. When I took second look and thought about it a little, it dawned on me it wouldn’t work but I separated one just to confirm.

I thought about using the round flat washer and mocked it up but that doesn’t leave an adequate amount of threads for the lock nut to engage. So, I ordered the flange you suggested. They are forecast to arrive Tuesday.

Also, did you buy new (longer) bolts from a hardware store or find some from another source? Do you recall the length you used? I’m assuming grade 8?

 

[1of40]

I do not want to purchase yours but would like to confirm what I have is a GBR. Would you mind posting a photo?

Out of town for a couple weeks but will get a pic when I get back.

 

[kris812]

“I TOO was going to burn up my old mounts for the flanges, decided to keep em as spares incase the poly bites the dust on me.”

The flange on the old mounts won’t work. The center hole is too small. I didn’t burn off the rubber but instead pushed the rubber part through on a press. When I took second look and thought about it a little, it dawned on me it wouldn’t work but I separated one just to confirm.

I thought about using the round flat washer and mocked it up but that doesn’t leave an adequate amount of threads for the lock nut to engage. So, I ordered the flange you suggested. They are forecast to arrive Tuesday.

Also, did you buy new (longer) bolts from a hardware store or find some from another source? Do you recall the length you used? I’m assuming grade 8?

Just to note: the 17$ gets you 1 flange and you will need 2 of them (one for each side),
And you might want to use the gasket as well to push em to 11mm ish, but I have TF trailing arms so YMMV..
I also ground one side's edge a bit to help clear the frame weld, and on TF bushings you gotta relieve the pressure on the big nut.

I used an angle finder APP on my phone to check flanges before and after. Surprisingly accurate and WAY better than my old school angle finder. Free APP at that.

As for the bolts, I went SAE grade 8 from local parts store.. Sorry don't remember sizes, But they can be too long without any issue.
(pull 1 bolt and hit parts store before, what I did)

All in all, best ~40$ I have spent on vibration fixes getting rear pinion parallel to the output after ditching the flex. I spent more on a flex that lasted 100 miles lol

 

[kris812]

In an ideal world I think the rear should have -1 degree on the Pinion to T-case. So that when you are LOADED the axle pushes bushings etc turning the axle to -0 degrees..

On leaf springs you aim for -2 degrees as they flex more and end up +2 loaded, but splitting the difference is best you can get.

Also 0 degrees on a flat and level driveshaft (not relevant to Rovers) is also bad as the UJ's needles never turn and self-lubricate. Then you stress them once offroad/hotrod and SNAP!

With these spacers I ended up with 'almost' +1 degree. AKA rear pinion UP 1 degree compared to the T-case. I thought about adding the Gaskets or washers or something to space MORE.. But decided to bolt it down and TRY IT.

SMOOTH as a kitten at 75mph now... Mind blowing that 4 degrees off can shake like a 5# weight inside a front tire!

 

[terryjm1]

In an ideal world I think the rear should have -1 degree on the Pinion to T-case. So that when you are LOADED the axle pushes bushings etc turning the axle to -0 degrees..

On leaf springs you aim for -2 degrees as they flex more and end up +2 loaded, but splitting the difference is best you can get.

Also 0 degrees on a flat and level driveshaft (not relevant to Rovers) is also bad as the UJ's needles never turn and self-lubricate. Then you stress them once offroad/hotrod and SNAP!

With these spacers I ended up with 'almost' +1 degree. AKA rear pinion UP 1 degree compared to the T-case. I thought about adding the Gaskets or washers or something to space MORE.. But decided to bolt it down and TRY IT.

SMOOTH as a kitten at 75mph now... Mind blowing that 4 degrees off can shake like a 5# weight inside a front tire!

I don’t get any vibration I can feel. I just get the deceleration noise. Thanks for the extra tip about there only being one per order. I looked at the photo and assumed two were included.

 

[DiscoClay]

0 degrees on a flat and level driveshaft (not relevant to Rovers) is also bad as the UJ's needles never turn and self-lubricate.

Fascinating. I never thought about that.

 

[DiscoClay]

For the REAR driveshaft, to summarize:

Try to get the pinion flange to be one (1) degree less than the transfer-case flange angle.​

e.g.: Lets say the transfer case is ~86º (the crank centerline being ~5º tail-down from parallel) relative to the ground, so you are shooting for the rear axle pinion flange to be ~85º when the wagon is unladen. This gives some "settling room" to bring the median angle into ~0º ish parallel alignment between the two flanges.
​

And this can be achieved by using 3 inch (3-hole) exhaust flanges (e.g.: header collector flanges) as shims for the rear trailing arms, such as these: https://www.amazon.com/Slmnliras-Exhaust-Flange-Connection-Downpipe/dp/B0C2C81PTD (note: the example I included comes with two steel flanges and one gasket for ~$19USD as of this post, so if you don't need the extra gasket it will save a few bucks).​

​

Please correct me as necessary