Dangerous Dog Advice - big dilemma for a dog lover...

[kennith]

I've seen professionals work with dogs like that and it works. Muzzle the dog and dominate him- put him off his feet and hold him down with you chest until he submits. One of my friends who trained police dogs used to use that technique on rescued dogs that were former crack house guards.
Don't ever use a voice command to correct behavior- then they expect to only have to use correct behavior when TOLD to.

I agree completely. As well, Mat's suggestions are very good. This dog needs to be shown who is the boss. These are large animals, and very strong, and it is neccessary to dominate them regularly to keep any ideas out of their heads. No need for violence, he will think that is acceptable behavior. Take him down with smooth force. Keep him there for a while, then release him before he complains.

It is important to release him while he is still in good spirits, and right after he submits. This shows him you have, in your mercy, allowed him to get back up. If you let him complain or fight back before you let him up, he will think he fought you off.

He needs to understand you are more than a loud voice, and that you are stronger and larger than he is, despite his sharp teeth. Hence the effortless display of strength and mercy. The mercy builds trust.

Don't go and jump on him when he is angry. Hold him down when he is not displaying HIS strength.

And it is true, if you are afraid, you can't do it. You have to know in your heart that you can defeat him in a bout of strength. If not, he will detect it. If this is the case, and you are indeed afraid, find him a home with an owner who can spare the time and energy to do all this, and who is not intimidated.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[draaronr]

two words

Dog Whisperer

 

[Porter]

I am a dog lover, and I have to say, good job for saving this dog's life. I own a German shepherd and a rottie mix and they are my kids so I understand the attachment you may have on this stray.

Unfortunately, you have an uphill battle here. For those who have told you, that you need to be alpha - I totally agree. While you may be watchful, and capable of following the advice here, the problem comes with your other family members (wife, dogs, kids, ect...) and friends. If he decides to become agressive or dominate on them, I would be afraid to think of the outcome here.

I would highly recommend you take the dog to a professional and have him evaulated (maybe even after being neutered). Unfortunately, neutering may not change a whole lot. It depends on a lot of different factors. Much of his behavior has already been modified and set in the presence of testosterone, so neutering may not necessarily change much afterwards.

Again, saving this pup was a great deed, but you have to also look at the well-being of your family, and realize that not everyone can be saved. You yourself said that if given the chance, the dog will lash out and bit someone.

 

[DiscoJen]

I agree with many posts in this thread especially Steve, Matt and Kennith. I've had to put my Border Collie on his back many many times to get him to understand who the boss was. Never "stare" a dog down either...the way to show your dominance is to look their way, let your eyes meet, then you look away before he does. Soon, you'll be able to increase the amount of time that you can look at each other with each time you looking away first. There are also many dog behaviour books as well. I think one of the good ones is There Are No Bad Dogs??? If you don't have the time and dedication that this requires then the Rottie Rescue will have many more resources and volunteers that will be able to take on this little angry man.

 

[UK 4X4]

look's like a rottie P-bull cross to me...and about 2-3 years old

Agression in dogs can be caused by a mutitude of things, correctly identifying and solving the issues can take time.

Its not always a dominant dog thats agresive, it could be ill or in pain,
or simply be frightened of the situation(the two other dogs at home) or just adjusting to its new environs.

treating agresive behavior with agression / noise etc may make the situation worse.

There are many passive ways of showing your new budy who's boss,
the eating first, removing food, returning is one method of many.

It really depends on what the cause is, and finding it will take time.

The putting down and submission method is fine with a dog you know and is pushing his luck....

To do it with an agressive dog will need a mussel and an experienced handler, personnaly i think it would make the present situation worse.

he needs time to settle in and learn his place in your pack.

I think the window issue was lack of vision maybe reflection, something new to him.

First bye bye furry marbles.......if its defencive agression this won't go away....even marble less...but if its dominance it may diminish with time...it takes a while for testostorone to drop

Around the kids wife walking etc get a soft mussle for him, let him get used to it as an everyday item of clothing, rather than a punishment or just for walks

Introducing the other two dogs can be done mussled too, or preferably not but both leashed with a good handler, in case of fight.

leashed gives you a controlable situation, but its better un leashed if you are sure you will be able to control any situation...chained up means he looses one option of the fight or flight mentality

man my english suck'ssss..........

ie if your dog is fine relaxed and non agressive you only have to grab one in case of problems....

Do this individually not both together at first, then when no issue have occured introduce the other dog, if ones female try her first.

Cesar does it by using other dog's in his pack with the non agressive ones, but he's used to it.........

The dog whisperer has a book and a DVD I think, and i quite like his methods.....

Your main issue will be time...........do you and your family think you will persevere.....

If not a rottie rescue would be best......and now at an early stage,
they know the breed and issues.....

It sounds like you have enough on your plate and giving to rescue is not a bad thing...you did the best thing by taking him out of his previous enviroment...

Diesel was a rescue too, non agressive but had major agrophobia...from spending his first 7 months in a 14 ft square concrete toilet....

he's fine now...but it took a lot of time and effort...other's here who met him I'm sure will say he's OK....

 

[p m]

Roverjoe -

I have observed the same behavior in a dachshund and in my mom's german hunting terrier. Both dogs, albeit small, can inflict some serious damage.
I haven't had any issues with either dog, but that may be because I am not afraid of dog bites (... which reminds me... when I get back home, I gotta throttle the neighbors' cocker spaniel...). But others have been attacked, sometimes badly. I don't know of a proper way of dealing with it - besides a very sure hand.

 

[DJG]

To just "put him down" is the easy way to get out of the situation, but if you didn't really care i'm sure you wouldn't have rescued him in the first place. It may take some time to call a few rescue groups, but if you figure the time you have spent typing on a land rover board in reference to a dog you could just call a few rescue groups and possibly just wash your hand of the whole situation. Just a thought. To just put him down is a little ridiculous considering you went out of your way to help him.

 

[FIVESPDDISCO]

put the dog DOWN i love my dalmations big time and got a new pup. He went bad. i did all the alpha male stuff and i was the top dog. ( take the dog and hold him down when doing this bite his neck. no joke u will be the alpha. becarfull he may try to bite back) when i was not home he bit my girlfriends freind and sent her to the hospital. thank god she did not file a suit

again you have a mean dog by breed

 

[emmodg]

I would also say to find a rescue home for him if you don't want to tackle the problem. I don't even know you but ANYONE who helps an animal MUST be a good person. You went above and beyond the call of duty with him. Get some help but putting him down BEFORE you try and get some help from a handler or a "home" doesn't seem to fit your character from what I have read. It's a weird feeling when you go out of your way to help an animal and it doesn't seem to appreciate it, (I think they really do though), but I for one think it's worth it when you can, and like I said, it says a lot for YOU. Hate to be all "warm and fuzzy" and PETA-like but dogs rule!

Good luck, you're a good man Charlie Brown!

 

[oberdahill]

Interesting reading. For the sake of family and personal welfare, I'd get the dog out of the house (shelter, Humane Society) and then make the necessary calls. Professional therapy is the way to go if you plan on keeping him as a pet, but the threat of his violent mood swings will remain. If you don't plan on keeping him as a household pet, now is the time to call the referred organizations. Don't risk the welfare of your children or children in the neighborhood on him. We run a veterinarian courier service (in Hawaii) and I could have my wife talk to a couple of the vets for their recommendations. Bottom line, I don't care who the "alpha" is, this dog can be a threat to anyone and that alone should carry some weight in you decison. The safety of my family is more important than the welfare of a dog.

 

[Dredd]

To just "put him down" is the easy way to get out of the situation, but if you didn't really care i'm sure you wouldn't have rescued him in the first place. It may take some time to call a few rescue groups, but if you figure the time you have spent typing on a land rover board in reference to a dog you could just call a few rescue groups and possibly just wash your hand of the whole situation. Just a thought. To just put him down is a little ridiculous considering you went out of your way to help him.

Bull. The easy way out would have been to do nothing and leave him to die. You took a sick dying animal and comforted him in the last part of his life - that is a very kind act. He may be better physically, but he's still sick. You can call a rescue group and waste their resources or yours by playing "therapy" with him, but in the end you know he's sick and by getting involved you now have a personal responsibilty to keep him from hurting anyone. It's not heartless, it's hopeless. Don't pass him on unless you can live with yourself when he injures someone.
HB

 

[Randy]

Way to read my post RANDY!

Clearly we were on the say wavelength, and we posted like a minute apart so no way I coulda seen that you said the same thing as I did....but then again, great minds think alike!

PS, I saw one of my old riding trainers this weekend...she had a Corgi named Stuart that died two years ago, she has just recently rescued two. One from a shelter (looks a little like the one of yours with a tail) and one they found wandering through Towson, MD starved and mangey. She's a black tri and adorable!

Clearly another Corgi lover!! Give her a hug from us when you see her again! And if she ever runs into a Corgi Rescue situation and she can't take it in, give us a shout, ok? (No Dan, doesn't matter if shes hot!)

 

[DJG]

Bull. The easy way out would have been to do nothing and leave him to die. You took a sick dying animal and comforted him in the last part of his life - that is a very kind act. He may be better physically, but he's still sick. You can call a rescue group and waste their resources or yours by playing "therapy" with him, but in the end you know he's sick and by getting involved you now have a personal responsibilty to keep him from hurting anyone. It's not heartless, it's hopeless. Don't pass him on unless you can live with yourself when he injures someone.
HB

Maybe I didn't come across the way I meant to.... In the situation he in now, just putting him down would be the easy way out. Obviously he did the hard / good thing by bringing the poor dog in, feeding him, etc.. It would be a shame to just not pick up and phone and dial a few people who really are familar with these situations. If the dog is truely vicious, and not just scared and going through an adjustment period I would have to agree that 'therapy" probably isn't such a great idea. I brought in a dog that was agressive, and had lots of issues but after an "adjustment period" and some training he's now the best dog i've ever had.

Good luck either way.

 

[kennith]

put the dog DOWN i love my dalmations big time and got a new pup. He went bad. i did all the alpha male stuff and i was the top dog. ( take the dog and hold him down when doing this bite his neck. no joke u will be the alpha. becarfull he may try to bite back) when i was not home he bit my girlfriends freind and sent her to the hospital. thank god she did not file a suit

again you have a mean dog by breed

The problem isn't a bad dog, the problem is usually the human. You have to give the full dominance package, contgrolling food, entering doors first, expecting him to walk behind you, taking him down, and also loving him and showing affection. He will gradually learn this behavior.

If you just tackle him and bite him, he will think it's play time, and animals play rough together, rough enough to kill a weak human. He needs to understand that you love him, but it is no game.

This is an animal. It operates purely off of instinct and learned behavior. Animals bite. Hampsters bite, snakes bite, dogs bite, and cats bite, it's just the way they are. There is nothing wrong with the animal to warrant killing it. If you can't handle a dog, get a fish, but some of those bite too.

Dogs don't just "go bad" anymore than the occasional human does. Now, there is a much smaller gene pool for them, but even still, a mentally handicapped dog still has a place somewhere. You don't destroy it because it isn't perfect.

If you can't control an animal without violence, you shouldn't have a pet.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[Jake]

again you have a mean dog by breed


:banghead: we have had this discussion before on here. you cannot lump a whole breed into a category like that. Rots are by breed cattle dogs, not attack dogs....

 

[Roverlady]

If you just tackle him and bite him, he will think it's play time, and animals play rough together, rough enough to kill a weak human. He needs to understand that you love him, but it is no game.

DITTO! If we did that to our Border Collie--he'd be nipping and jumping all over the place all the time. But instead, I get his attention and tell him to lie down. If he stays there, calmly, he gets a treat/reward, a pat and a praise. I've seen it work many times, even with Dobermans and Rotties. The woman who did the training class for our Cocker Spaniel (yes, they bite too!) was a Dobie expert and they were the ABSOLUTE best behaved and most trustworthy dogs I've ever been around.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

I grew up training dogs and cleaning cages at a kennel.

we housed dogs for Pinkerton K9 Police

after that I did problem solving for the Humane society In madison wisconsin for 3 yrs

I started importing Rotties from germany in the early 80's thru about 89. I have bred dogs that have gone into police work,personal protection work and field trials.

my point I have dealt with more problems dogs then most people can swing a rolled up newspaper at

Rotties are really tough dogs to save, they have a dominate side that lays latent for long periods of times and when you least expect it they will kill another dog or injure someone very badly. I love the true breed Rott and respect them for what they are and what they came from.

If I had a house to myself and a safe exercize area I may try to work with such a case but with a wife, other dogs, or children around I wouldent even think about it. I could go on and on and tell you stories about rotties that "got away" from thier owners control and what happened but all it will do is open up a can of worms. You just cant compare other breeds with Rotties they have the strength to inflict life long damage to people and other animals in the blink of a eye so having one with issues is like leaving a loaded gun in a kindergarden.

I'm not trying to knock what anyone else has said, I'm just stating that they are a big challenge when you get them as puppies let alone after they have been abused and mistreated and then dumped to fend for themselves.

look at it this way...whats the best case with this animal? and at what cost?

just one story I did a rescue of a 2 yr old rottie that had held the owners captive in thier house for 2 days. the local sherriff had shotguns outside and was about to shoot the dog. I walked into the house said PLOTTZ and the dog sat down and let me put a leash on him and walked out like nothing ever happened. A few weeks later he tore most of the flesh off the forarm of a worker at the humane society that had handled the dog almost everyday since it had been brought in. the worker liked the dog so much he thought he's take him home...until that happened

when something triggers a rottie they are a handful

 

[Matt Taylor]

What's "PLOTTZ?"

 

[MUSKYMAN]

LOL...sorry its my bad spelling... PLATTZ is german schutzund command for down.

I had trained that dog about 6 months earlier it was a awsome dog to say the least but it at some point wanted to move up the pack and nobody stopped it. the people had purchased a fully trained dog and went through a short training course themselves to be familiar with how to command the dog.

very much a shame

 

[Matt Taylor]

I wouldn't have known PLATTZ anyway; I just wanted to know how some random dog knew (what I guessed to be) a german command. I didn't know you had trained that dog before.

I've known two rotties pretty well -- my friend's dogs. They were both very, very cool dogs.

Scariest dog I ever met was a chow. He was just waiting for somebody to give him a reason...