Disco-1 Electric-hydraulic power steering conversion DONE!

[p m]

FWIW - any bulbs in Hella 7" round housings don't come close to the amount of light D1/D2 headlights put out.
Even Holley Retrobrights with 5700k bulbs are not as bright.

As far as brake boosters go - a RRC/P38 brake setup is vastly superior to D1's. Pumps are fairly reliable.

 

[DiscoClay]

FWIW - any bulbs in Hella 7" round housings don't come close to the amount of light D1/D2 headlights put out.
Even Holley Retrobrights with 5700k bulbs are not as bright.

As far as brake boosters go - a RRC/P38 brake setup is vastly superior to D1's. Pumps are fairly reliable.

Actually, they are 5-1/4" reflectors. The H4's that I am using are....bright. It is fairly straight forward to make up for a smaller reflector (throw more watts at it). The thing I really like about the hella H4's is how tight the beam it; it has a great vertical cut off; not quite projector quality but vastly better than stock D1 reflectors (and their diffusing lenses). That said; the project is going to be the lowbeam; the H4 low beam will be for auxiliary 'low' beams. The brights will be both the projector's bright lamp as well as the H4's bright lamp. Plenty of light to be had. We do a lot of forest driving and its really quite dark; that said, enough cars also drive in the opposite direction that I really like the projectors for their not-blinding vertical cut-off.

If the clear PC lenses work out well I may make a few and offer them up for sale to guys that hate pitted lenses as much as I do.

I don't know of a significant difference between the Classic and the D1.. The brakes themselves are essentially identical but the vac booster is different (?).

I have the vented 130 discs on the front, with the wider calipers (of course). The master-cylinder piston is the same diameter; so there was no noticeable change in feel. I have the spanish kit that enables putting front brakes on the rear (requires adjustable prop valve!) which I've heard is great for towing.

Anyways, eBooster

 

[ERover82]

RRC/P38 brakes are similar in design but very different in practice. The parts used are just more effective and more reliable.

Always thought the D1 lamps were really good, better than Defenders with their 7” round lamps. Increasing wattage to compensate for a smaller, less efficient lamp doesn’t really make sense - you could just put the same bulb in the better lamp. Additionally, the glass is much more durable than the relatively soft plastic lenses that oxidize over time.

Never had a problem with D1/2 steering either though. In good working order, and with reasonably sized tires, I never found myself wishing for more power or less noise. They seemed to work as well as any other truck.

 

[DiscoClay]

RRC/P38 brakes are similar in design but very different in practice. The parts used are just more effective and more reliable.

I get the impression you don't approve of my mods I'll line item your points and my comments:

I'm not an expert on Classic brakes or P38 brakes. I do know NAS disco brakes are great for stopping golf carts while being complete garbage for stopping 5,000 lbs of wagon from 75mph.

I also really like having more boost rather than less...and dialing it back from there.

Always thought the D1 lamps were really good, better than Defenders with their 7” round lamps.

I have no experience comparing them, but do have plenty of experience with the smaller Hella OE headlamps (not to be confused with the fogs of similar size) and I know they are very capable of bouncing lots of photons.

Increasing wattage to compensate for a smaller, less efficient lamp doesn’t really make sense

it makes complete sense when desiring to install smaller, WAAAY MORE SHINY reflectors in place of old non-shiny aluminum film reflectors.

- you could just put the same bulb in the better lamp.

The Hella lamp is vastly better than a 30 year old (worn out) sputtered aluminum plastic reflector.

Additionally, the glass is much more durable than the relatively soft plastic lenses that oxidize over time.

100% disagree with this. I've replaced ~6 glass lamps in ~15years.

Deserts and gravel have proven (to me) glass breaks and pits...a lot; polycarbonate doesn't [*relatively].

Removing a few years of haze from PC is a 10 minute visit with a bottle of Maguire's polish, a buffer and a couple ice cold beers Removing craters and pits from glass is simply not practical.

Never had a problem with D1/2 steering either though.

I have. More than once.

Moreover, i am interested in bringing my remaining disco into the modern era with some updates to drivability.

As I said waaaay up there^ the steering is on another level; it simply and completely outclasses the stock steering; no comparison.

In good working order, and with reasonably sized tires, I never found myself wishing for more power or less noise.

I guess you have had better luck than me, or a higher tolerance for pain.

I have ensured good working order and avoided mudbog 40"ers and yet I find both steering and brakes dangerously lacking.

I am making the headlight mods for a combination of reasons: scarce NOS lamps/reflectors, ridiculous prices for them, desire to have non-glass lenses, more pronounced horizontal cutoff, brighter output, and because having the stock fiberglass reflectors re-sputtered is prohibitively expensive.

They seemed to work as well as any other truck.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

[nmstec]

Talk to Mark about that ebooster. If you an get the VIN it is probably doable.

I really am torn: I really like the hydraboost.. I have it on an old Ford dually and it is incredibly strong and reliable. No vacuum issues and it fairly compact. The main issues to put to bed are:

1. Will the e-pump deliver enough volume for both the steering and the brakes?
2. If I use that single pump it will surely have to get cranked up to max/near max
3. I will loose the ability to manually modulate the steering boost (because it will also effect the brake boost)

That said.. the ebooster is my first choice. So long as the battery has juice the power brakes will work. Plus; i *really* like the idea of being able to dial in the boost, just like with the steering.

Teeeeechnically if we have that much overhead on the pump, a pressure sensor may do the trick. Tie pressure sensor into my controller, and we can map out a "boost" map, that if pressure drops beyond expected level during brake application, to bump up the pump to target that pressure.

 

[p m]

Always thought the D1 lamps were really good, better than Defenders with their 7” round lamps. Increasing wattage to compensate for a smaller, less efficient lamp doesn’t really make sense - you could just put the same bulb in the better lamp. Additionally, the glass is much more durable than the relatively soft plastic lenses that oxidize over time.

FWIW, FYI - higher wattage bulbs are guaranteed to crack glass lenses on Hella housings (unless you use 55w low / 100w high and never use high beams).
I am running 80/100 bulbs in Hella E-code H4 housings, but I know that now they are a wearable item.

 

[DiscoClay]

Teeeeechnically if we have that much overhead on the pump, a pressure sensor may do the trick. Tie pressure sensor into my controller, and we can map out a "boost" map, that if pressure drops beyond expected level during brake application, to bump up the pump to target that pressure.

Great idea I shoulda pinged you on that. Either way, a FrankenBrake is in the future.

 

[DiscoClay]

FWIW, FYI - higher wattage bulbs are guaranteed to crack glass lenses on Hella housings (unless you use 55w low / 100w high and never use high beams).
I am running 80/100 bulbs in Hella E-code H4 housings, but I know that now they are a wearable item.

What are you using them for? Trail lights?

Have you considered using heatsinks on the back of the reflector?

I've been thinking about heat buildup and condensation remediation for my design.. I am currently leaning toward a small airfilter/port with an hv (1u server size) fan to cycle air through it. *The wagon isn't rigged for fjordding.

Any constructive thoughts are welcome

 

[p m]

What are you using them for? Trail lights?

Have you considered using heatsinks on the back of the reflector?

I've been thinking about heat buildup and condensation remediation for my design.. I am currently leaning toward a small airfilter/port with an hv (1u server size) fan to cycle air through it. *The wagon isn't rigged for fjordding.

Any constructive thoughts are welcome

I am using headlights .... as headlights.
I don't think it is worth investing in modifications in Hella housings. I've recently upgraded my daughter's Classic headlights with Holley Retrobrights - while the light distribution is noticeably worse than E-code Hellas with halogens, the total amount of light is comparable with 3000k bulbs, and much more with 5700K bulbs.
BTW, the reflectors in Holley Retrobright housings double as a massive heat sink. They are not flange-compatible with 9003/H4 bulbs, but it looks like this ship has sailed.

 

[DiscoClay]

I am using headlights .... as headlights.
I don't think it is worth investing in modifications in Hella housings. I've recently upgraded my daughter's Classic headlights with Holley Retrobrights - while the light distribution is noticeably worse than E-code Hellas with halogens, the total amount of light is comparable with 3000k bulbs, and much more with 5700K bulbs.
BTW, the reflectors in Holley Retrobright housings double as a massive heat sink. They are not flange-compatible with 9003/H4 bulbs, but it looks like this ship has sailed.

Ah, you are referring to the 7" Hellas; I was wondering what you'd be using the 5.75" rounds for.

A little airflow on those holleys and you should be gtg. Too bad they aren't as tight as the E4's

 

[DiscoClay]

Neat. How much current is drawn when turning?

Good question. I don't know

I have not observed any electrical system problems or concerns.

Given I run the pump down in that 20% range, a complete guess for loading could be 60 amps * 0.2 = 12 amps (*14v ~= 168w)
Maybe Mark has better theoretical values for this.

I need one of those clamp-on load/current meters. I'll post here when I unlock that "new tool"

 

[nmstec]

Neat. How much current is drawn when turning?

Sorry, seems I missed this message. So the OEM wiring diagrams have 2x 50a parallel fuses so I expect no more than 80amps at full power, full load.
The mazda pumps I have that are rated for 500psi lower bypass, and 0.6gpm less, have 80amp fuse, and run on a drift care absolutely brilliantly at 100% load. Drift cars are about as high load as it gets due to extended control arms, and living at lock to lock.

S13 R3

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I'd presume the Jeep/Charger pumps would need quite a bit less, as theres no real point running them at 100%.

 

[DiscoClay]

I'd presume the Jeep/Charger pumps would need quite a bit less, as theres no real point running them at 100%.

Yeah, i never run more than 50%. I am putting taller tires on soon (235/70/16 >> LT235/85/16 or 7.5x32x16LT) so we'll see if there is any difference.

 

[DiscoClay]

*beyond the acceleration killing nature of 31.5 inch tires

 

[DiscoClay]

Six Month Update

Rockin! Have YOU converted your yet? Get on it!

The short belt is holding up well.. given my level of laziness, and lack of a mill (at present), I have not made the standoff/bracket to attach the power steering idler pulley. Also, that big open area next to the distributor is just nice to look at... although maaaaybe that M122 blower snout would fit in there....

 

[StangGT5]

I have to say, this is an impressive amount of work and good knowledge for the community. I'll be coyote swapping a car in the near future, and a standalone pump would make that easier.

With that said, the pump on my RRC with 35" tires does fine, and isn't audible above the rest of the truck. With as leaky as Rover steering boxes are I'd be worried more pressure would just exacerbate the problem. I can't speak to D1 steering, but I have always felt the Discovery 2 steering was as good as solid axle vehicles get.

Still, maybe when the pump goes out on the RRC (knock on wood that isn't anytime soon), this would be worth looking into. I have a giant air compressor where you mounted the pump, so I'd have to get even more creative.

 

[DiscoClay]

Yeah, maybe I've just had bad luck with pumps. That said, I really like being able to adjust the boost pressure.

Regarding the CRAPPY steering box bolted to the D1, this pump is a Godsend: it lets you reduce the pressure.

Recall that the most [volume] pressure is expended at the slowest speeds.. e.g.: the effort to turn the wheel is greatest when the truck is parked and the effort is the least when the truck is motoring down the highway.

Also recall the pump makes the least amount of [volume] pressure at idle.. and the most at high RPM.. which is the exact opposite of what is required.

With the electric pump (https://www.nmstec.ca/2023/01/31/support-for-a-new-and-most-powerful-ehpas-weve-seen-yet/) and Mark's controller (https://www.nmstec.ca/product/psc/?currency=USD), you are able to provide the minimum amount of [volume] pressure desired/needed to turn your wheels... Meaning: this conversion can help your steering box last longer! ))

There are other locations, but it is certainly the no-brainer position If you nix your ABS pump then you may be able to stow it there?

 

[DiscoClay]

Update: that 7PK1682 short belt is not short enough. I am getting some slippage when the alternator is loaded down heavily.

I will try one that is ~1cm to 1/2 inch shorter and report back.

 

[DiscoClay]

Update:
Installed: New, shorter multi V-belt (7PK1664, GoodYearBelts.com: 1070655) installed. It is a little too tight.. not enough to kill bearings, but enough that the tensioner does not have enough travel to allow it to slip on; I pulled the top alternator bolt and dropped the alt just enough to install it. The tension really wasn't bad so I'll go with it for now.

It appears nobody makes a 7PK18774 (like a goodyear 1070690, aka: 65.90 inches) that would be perfect.

 

[DiscoClay]

Ah, you are referring to the 7" Hellas; I was wondering what you'd be using the 5.75" rounds for.

A little airflow on those holleys and you should be gtg. Too bad they aren't as tight as the E4's

regarding the off-topic headlight discussion: I created a new dedicated thread (https://discoweb.org/index.php?threads/custom-headlight-project-for-d1-1995-nas-14cux.101535/).